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Energy Discussion

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
I agree to an extent, but the property values are often double to triple the national median in these areas.
My house in Westcherster, NY is worth roughly the same as my condo in Waikiki, Hawaii. Both are in the $700k range. I pay more taxes in a month on the NY house than I pay in a year on the Hawaii condo.

I would financially benefit from raising the SALT limits. I don’t care. I’m opposed to almost everything NY does that cause the ridiculously high taxes. I’d rather take the financial hit they support NY’s stupidity. Zero SALT deductions
should be the law.
 

Doback

Well-Known Member
Here is an interesting article...I saw a similar system tested off the shore of New Hampshire. I like the idea.

How Scotland is using waves and bubbles to generate energy - Washington Post
Definitely interesting but I think still very unpractical vs alternative methods due to the low power output. With the largest tidal projects putting out just 2MW (not sure the capacity factor) vs GE’s latest offshore wind turbines at 16MW and a 60%+ capacity factor, wind should be able to output more and at a lower cost per MWh basis (offshore is now competitive with coal on an LCOE basis).

Another cool project I've seen in some Asian countries are pressurized floor panels that generate power as people walk across them link. It runs into a similar issue though that it just can't come close to generating enough power.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
GE’s latest offshore wind turbines at 16MW and a 60%+ capacity factor, wind should be able to output more and at a lower cost per MWh basis (offshore is now competitive with coal on an LCOE basis).
Sure…when the wind blows. They put a windmill as a test project not far from me and it is running about 40% predictions not because it is bad equipment (it is GE) but because the wind hasn’t followed predicted patterns. Flying over Texas I saw hundreds that weren’t turning because it was a calm day. Wind’s gotta blow for the mills to work. The tide…it’s always moving.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I'm curious what the cycle efficiency is on those units.

Power plants come in all different sizes. They all basically work by creating heat and convert about 30-40% of that into electricity. The rest of the energy warms up the environment around the power plant.

All power generation makes waste byproducts of some various kinds and quantities. Carbon dioxide is the big political thing these days. For example, natural gas-powered gas turbines make fairly little of it, coal plants inherently make a little more. There are some promising but elusive—and expensive—technologies to capture a lot of that CO2 on its way out the flue and put it into the ground somehow. Any power plant that burns stuff also has other pollutants in its byproducts, coal and oil have a few particularly nasty byproducts that come out in trace amounts like parts per million or billion. Smokestack scrubbers got invented long ago and they take care of a lot of that stuff but the standards are always getting raised in a race between technology and politics. Gas, oil, coal, they all make nitrogen oxides (get a PhD in gas turbine combustor design and NOx emissions and you'll never be out of a job), as long as there is 78% nitrogen in the atmosphere then it's going to try to combine with oxygen to create smog when you have a hot enough flame. Seering hot flames make for the most efficient power generation.

That's it, that's power generation, abstractly. Fuel turns into heat and pollution. Heat turns into electricity and waste heat.

Back to nuclear, it has a different kind of waste with its own issues. Cycle efficiency is limited by how hot the designers are willing to let the fuel get. Nuclear reactors are basically the rocks get hot and make steam, steam makes the generator go. But how you make the nuclear rocks get hot and hot hot they get, there are a few different methods out there with some fundamental technical differences. It's a bit like comparing gasoline and diesel but that analogy doesn't do it justice. The other thing is the different reactor designs out there have very different fuel requirements. The technical considerations for nuclear fuel usually comes back to politics (can the fuel be dual-use, power generation and weapons production, although in some reactor designs this just isn't possible) and what kind of raw materials come from the part of the world you live in- or who's willing to sell you their raw materials.

For nuclear, hotter is better. Hotter isn't necessarily more dangerous but at the same time it sort of is (historically, statistically, more technical risks to mitigate). Less hot is simpler and safer, sort of, but it's inherently less efficient- you get less electricity out of your fuel.



So that's what I'm really wondering when I say I'm curious how much bang for the buck these micro nuke plants are designed to give. I think it's a great idea, but I'm pro nuke. I'm pro nuke ×2: peaceful power generation and deterrence. I think if we eliminate the obviously bad plant designs that it's fantastic power generation for the baggage that comes with it. I think deterrence is great too- it kept the reds from doing anything stupid for decades, and it kept us from doing anything stupid during that time too. I don't think the mullahs want an apocalypse either, nobody's that crazy.
 
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Doback

Well-Known Member
This would be really interesting if this became economical. This would support the distributed generation model.

Rolls-Royce Is Breathing Life Back Into The Nuclear Industry | OilPrice.com
Looks a heck of a lot more promising than the latest disaster attempts at building new nukes in South Carolina and Georgia.

I agree. All the adults in the room know that our future will have to be a mix of clean/cleaner energy sources.
Agreed, luckily it looks like the loony no nuclear crowd is losing leverage. The $6bn in nuclear support in the infrastructure package was one of the bill’s bright spots. The build back better act has even more nuclear support but I wish they just compensated producers fairly for reliability rather than providing more PTCs. Of course then renewables would be dead in the water so probably never going to happen.
 

ABMD

Bullets don't fly without Supply
Any power plant that burns stuff also has other pollutants in its byproducts, coal and oil have a few particularly nasty byproducts that come out in trace amounts like parts per million or billion. Smokestack scrubbers got invented long ago and they take care of a lot of that stuff but the standards are always getting raised in a race between technology and politics.

Scrubbers are great at reducing So2, but are costly. I think we spent almost $1B to install one at a single, 1,300MW, plant. Got to tour it, pretty cool technology.

Looks a heck of a lot more promising than the latest disaster attempts at building new nukes in South Carolina and Georgia.

Agreed, luckily it looks like the loony no nuclear crowd is losing leverage. The $6bn in nuclear support in the infrastructure package was one of the bill’s bright spots. The build back better act has even more nuclear support but I wish they just compensated producers fairly for reliability rather than providing more PTCs. Of course then renewables would be dead in the water so probably never going to happen.

We were supposed to be part of that "Nuclear Renaissance" after getting the second loan guarantee from the DOE back in the mid-2000's. Thankfully we walked away after seeing the collateral requirements. Southern is years behind and tens of billions over-budget.

Some of this is heading our way to keep a few of our nukes operating for a few more years.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
I'm curious what the cycle efficiency is on those units.

Power plants come in all different sizes. They all basically work by creating heat and convert about 30-40% of that into electricity. The rest of the energy warms up the environment around the power plant.

All power generation makes waste byproducts of some various kinds and quantities. Carbon dioxide is the big political thing these days. For example, natural gas-powered gas turbines make fairly little of it, coal plants inherently make a little more. There are some promising but elusive—and expensive—technologies to capture a lot of that CO2 on its way out the flue and put it into the ground somehow. Any power plant that burns stuff also has other pollutants in its byproducts, coal and oil have a few particularly nasty byproducts that come out in trace amounts like parts per million or billion. Smokestack scrubbers got invented long ago and they take care of a lot of that stuff but the standards are always getting raised in a race between technology and politics. Gas, oil, coal, they all make nitrogen oxides (get a PhD in gas turbine combustor design and NOx emissions and you'll never be out of a job), as long as there is 78% nitrogen in the atmosphere then it's going to try to combine with oxygen to create smog when you have a hot enough flame. Seering hot flames make for the most efficient power generation.

That's it, that's power generation, abstractly. Fuel turns into heat and pollution. Heat turns into electricity and waste heat.

Back to nuclear, it has a different kind of waste with its own issues. Cycle efficiency is limited by how hot the designers are willing to let the fuel get. Nuclear reactors are basically the rocks get hot and make steam, steam makes the generator go. But how you make the nuclear rocks get hot and hot hot they get, there are a few different methods out there with some fundamental technical differences. It's a bit like comparing gasoline and diesel but that analogy doesn't do it justice. The other thing is the different reactor designs out there have very different fuel requirements. The technical considerations for nuclear fuel usually comes back to politics (can the fuel be dual-use, power generation and weapons production, although in some reactor designs this just isn't possible) and what kind of raw materials come from the part of the world you live in- or who's willing to sell you their raw materials.

For nuclear, hotter is better. Hotter isn't necessarily more dangerous but at the same time it sort of is (historically, statistically, more technical risks to mitigate). Less hot is simpler and safer, sort of, but it's inherently less efficient- you get less electricity out of your fuel.



So that's what I'm really wondering when I say I'm curious how much bang for the buck these micro nuke plants are designed to give. I think it's a great idea, but I'm pro nuke. I'm pro nuke ×2: peaceful power generation and deterrence. I think if we eliminate the obviously bad plant designs that it's fantastic power generation for the baggage that comes with it. I think deterrence is great too- it kept the reds from doing anything stupid for decades, and it kept us from doing anything stupid during that time too. I don't think the mullahs want an apocalypse either, nobody's that crazy.

In the news today.


Bill Gates’ TerraPower aims to build its first advanced nuclear reactor in a coal town in Wyoming

How TerraPower’s reactors are different
The Kemmerer plant will be the first to use an advanced nuclear design called Natrium, developed by TerraPower with GE-Hitachi.
Natrium plants use liquid sodium as a cooling agent instead of water. Sodium has a higher boiling point and can absorb more heat than water, which means high pressure does not build up inside the reactor, reducing the risk of an explosion.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
President Biden’s nominee for Comptroller of the Currency, Saule Omarova, has certainly made some controversial statements in regards to the fossil fuel industry and everyone who works in it:


The conversation at one point turned to climate change and its impact on fossil-fuel producers, and Ms. Omarova was on the case. “A lot of the smaller players in that industry are going to, probably, go bankrupt in short order—at least, we want them to go bankrupt if we want to tackle climate change,”


Speaking at a virtual forum in May, Omarova said "the way we basically get rid of those carbon financiers is we starve them of their sources of capital."
 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
President Biden’s nominee for Comptroller of the Currency, Saule Omarova, has certainly made some controversial statements in regards to the fossil fuel industry and everyone who works in it:


The conversation at one point turned to climate change and its impact on fossil-fuel producers, and Ms. Omarova was on the case. “A lot of the smaller players in that industry are going to, probably, go bankrupt in short order—at least, we want them to go bankrupt if we want to tackle climate change,”


Speaking at a virtual forum in May, Omarova said "the way we basically get rid of those carbon financiers is we starve them of their sources of capital."
She's a Marxist loon.
 

FrankTheTank

Professional Pot Stirrer
pilot
President Biden’s nominee for Comptroller of the Currency, Saule Omarova, has certainly made some controversial statements in regards to the fossil fuel industry and everyone who works in it:


The conversation at one point turned to climate change and its impact on fossil-fuel producers, and Ms. Omarova was on the case. “A lot of the smaller players in that industry are going to, probably, go bankrupt in short order—at least, we want them to go bankrupt if we want to tackle climate change,”


Speaking at a virtual forum in May, Omarova said "the way we basically get rid of those carbon financiers is we starve them of their sources of capital."
Let’s Go, Brandon
 
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