Energy Discussion

[taxi1]

How exactly is that going to happen? I don't see anyone building nuke plants or removing petrochemicals from the equation

Well, not in one day...


Ergo the reference to nudge. I'm talking the long game, for the world my kids live in. When folks like the Saudis and Putin no longer have us by the short hairs.

Eco-smart energy is also going to be politically smart.

Humans aren't that good at looking into the future and planning, preferring the exhaust whatever we have in front of us and then suffering while solving the problem. The sooner we feel the pain, the sooner we start solving. Thanks, Vlad.

 

[Notanaviator]

I've been very surprised we haven't seen more of a return to nuclear. With all the other imperfect options out there, seems like this one is pretty obvious, but I guess not... haven't been tracking the R&D for smaller more distributed reactors, which I also think has merit. Safety record is pretty strong overall at this point, no? Happy to have folks smarter on this stuff than me weigh in.

 

[taxi1]

I've been very surprised we haven't seen more of a return to nuclear. With all the other imperfect options out there, seems like this one is pretty obvious, but I guess not... haven't been tracking the R&D for smaller more distributed reactors, which I also think has merit. Safety record is pretty strong overall at this point, no? Happy to have folks smarter on this stuff than me weigh in.

I was at ARPA-E's annual conference in Denver a few weeks ago, and there are a ton of projects ongoing in the nuke space. Lots of small modular reactor work, and of course fusion power. Lots of other cool topics too.

One of the more interesting ones was called White Hydrogen. The idea is that at super deep temps and pressures, water splits into the oxygen and hydrogen. This occurs deep in the Earth, so there's a line of research on how to pump down water and get the Earth to do the creating, or to just drill for it as it is made naturally. All kinds of funky things.

They had an open reception in the evenings in the display hall, with an open bar for the first two hours. I talked with some fusion guy who was drunk, and he was pretty positive about recent gains. Not tomorrow, but lends an inevitability to it.

 

[Flash]

Back to the Future for the Europeans.

Dutch join Germany, Austria, in reverting to coal

The Dutch joined Germany and Austria in reverting to coal power on Monday following an energy crisis provoked by Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.france24.com

Probably not for more than a few years though, the Germans have really tried to go all in on renewables and some of their neighbors are leaning that way. But they've gotta do what's necessary to wean themselves off that Russian gas in the short term, so coal it is for a little while.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Fusion's been right around the corner for decades. I do think we'll crack it eventually, but it's hard for a layman to tell the difference between real progress and snake oil. As far as the newer fission reactor designs, I think they show a lot of promise- the hard part is getting them built in sufficient numbers to make a difference.

Nukes in the developed world seem caught between environmentalists in unpopulated areas and NIMBYs in populated areas. Everyone worries about the waste products, which might not be as big a problem as they used to be, if proper planning happens. That said, I'm not sure a lot of people are thinking realistically about what's needed to power the grid right now- they seem to assume it's always someone else's problem. Meanwhile we continue to outsource our carbon and people sit on their high-horse about it (I'm looking at you, California!) Maybe there's more cooperation going on than I realize, but it doesn't seem like much traction is being made with energy production and security.

Ugh. As you implied @taxi1 , maybe things need to go "splat" for more people to realize how dumb we've been about energy production.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Fusion's been right around the corner for decades. I do think we'll crack it eventually, but it's hard for a layman to tell the difference between real progress and snake oil. As far as the newer fission reactor designs, I think they show a lot of promise- the hard part is getting them built in sufficient numbers to make a difference.

Nukes in the developed world seem caught between environmentalists in unpopulated areas and NIMBYs in populated areas. Everyone worries about the waste products, which might not be as big a problem as they used to be, if proper planning happens. That said, I'm not sure a lot of people are thinking realistically about what's needed to power the grid right now- they seem to assume it's always someone else's problem. Meanwhile we continue to outsource our carbon and people sit on their high-horse about it (I'm looking at you, California!) Maybe there's more cooperation going on than I realize, but it doesn't seem like much traction is being made with energy production and security.

Ugh. As you implied @taxi1 , maybe things need to go "splat" for more people to realize how dumb we've been about energy production.

People always think about all this waste caused by nuclear power, the waste is actually minimal but the waste generated from the production of nuclear weapons is much more and that is what people focus on.

 

[wink]

People always think about all this waste caused by nuclear power, the waste is actually minimal but the waste generated from the production of nuclear weapons is much more and that is what people focus on.

I think I once heard that all nuclear waste from US power generation since day one, would fit into a 3 bedroom house. Is it THAT minimal?

 

[jmcquate]

but the waste generated from the production of nuclear weapons is much more and that is what people focus on.

Huh?

 

[taxi1]

People always think about all this waste caused by nuclear power

I think what really gets their attention is stuff like 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukashima.

 

[wink]

I think what really gets their attention is stuff like 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukashima.

And of course, there is more to the story behind every one of those that is nothing like what the public thinks they know. If they knew more, they might not be so anti nuke. Clearly anti-nuclear greens have won the battle for the hearts and minds in an info war.

 

[taxi1]

And of course, there is more to the story behind every one of those that is nothing like what the public thinks they know. If they knew more, they might not be so anti nuke. Clearly anti-nuclear greens have won the battle for the hearts and minds in an info war.

Explosions at a nuclear power plant are always a bad look. You don't have to be a anti-nuke green to wonder WTF, didn't they know they have tsunamis and earthquakes in Japan?

 

[Randy Daytona]

Probably not for more than a few years though, the Germans have really tried to go all in on renewables and some of their neighbors are leaning that way. But they've gotta do what's necessary to wean themselves off that Russian gas in the short term, so coal it is for a little while.

I am skeptical - there is neither enough sun nor wind to go renewable in Germany. Despite the billions upon billions of euros, their transition to renewable power has been a failure. With interest rates going up, its only going to get more expensive to install. And if Germany can’t make it work / can’t afford to make it work - then it looks like coal for a longer duration for Germany and Eastern Europe than anyone wants to contemplate.

And everyone said coal was dead….

 

[taxi1]

I think I once heard that all nuclear waste from US power generation since day one, would fit into a 3 bedroom house. Is it THAT minimal?

Just saw this…

 

[Flash]

I am skeptical - there is neither enough sun nor wind to go renewable in Germany. Despite the billions upon billions of euros, their transition to renewable power has been a failure. With interest rates going up, its only going to get more expensive to install. And if Germany can’t make it work / can’t afford to make it work - then it looks like coal for a longer duration for Germany and Eastern Europe than anyone wants to contemplate.

And everyone said coal was dead….

The Germans are pretty committed to going to as much renewables as possible, there is not only the political will but more importantly the public will to do so with the Greens holding a lot more power there than pretty much any other large 1st world country. So they might not be able to go to 100% any time soon but getting as close as they can is a national goal, and frankly a pretty admirable one not only for the environment but geopolitically as well.

To say that there transition to renewable power is premature to say the least.

And everyone said coal was dead….

It ain't dead yet but it is certainly dying.

 

[Randy Daytona]

The Germans are pretty committed to going to as much renewables as possible, there is not only the political will but more importantly the public will to do so with the Greens holding a lot more power there than pretty much any other large 1st world country. So they might not be able to go to 100% any time soon but getting as close as they can is a national goal, and frankly a pretty admirable one not only for the environment but geopolitically as well.

To say that there transition to renewable power is premature to say the least.



It ain't dead yet but it is certainly dying.

I have doubts about the solar intensity at Germany’s latitude, the amount of wind power available or battery technology to do much more than carry a small portion of the total electrical power required.

As for Asia and other non-western portions of the world, renewables will be a niche but I expect coal to be the baseload power generation.

I would like to see the data you are using that shows total coal consumption declining.