Death of the Hobby Pilot?

[MasterBates]

Kind of on the subject of the airlines,

For those who have flown/fly for the airlines, if you were a LT now, would it be better to stay in the AD Navy until 20, take your pension, and go fly for the Majors, knowing you will never be able to get a pension with the current age limits. Or would it be better to jump at the end of the committment, stay SELRES, and try to get on and stay on with an Airline ASAP?

Since the personal factors are different for all, from a financial standpoint, what would be the reccomended route? I don't know enough about the airlines to even make an educated guess what the state of retirement plans will be in in 6 years..

 

[HAL Pilot]

MB,

The answer to your question is variable. It all depends on the state of the airline industry at the time.

I know plenty of guys that are at majors, who would now have 20 years military if they had stayed in but would not be at majors if they had stayed in.

Conversely, I know plenty of guys who got out and got hired at a major only to be furloughed and jobless.

Timing is everything. But in the long run, you will make more money at an airline. And the sooner you get there, the better the results. Seniority is King. With seniority comes better job security, better pay and better QOL. (Plus in your case, the ex can't touch it.....)

Also, bet on the airline retirement age to be 65 by the time you get there.

Short version of a what I perceive to be a much longer story. There is a member of this site that changed designators because he felt he wasn't competitive for either DH in his old community or a major airline career if he got out. The airline part was true a couple of years ago when this happened but not true today. I think he would be competitive for a major job now. Worst case, he could walk into a regional job and be at a major in a year or two.

Remember to keep track of the pilots you know that got out and went airlines. Networking is very important.

 

[A4sForever]

Everything HAL said ^ is correct.

As always ... if YOU do your part .... it's timing, timing, and timing.

In my experience, however, I've never seen a guy who stayed Big Blue for 20 and then did really "well" in the airlines. I'm not saying it can't/doesn't happen ... it just doesn't too much.

And after being SOMEBODY for 20 years in Naval Aviation it REALLY would suck flying for Captain Peach Fuzz who got all his time in civie street and is 10 years your junior when you're sitting in his right seat saying things like .... "O.K., Captain ... whatever you say ... " Now THAT ... I've seen all too often.

 

[phrogdriver]

Which is my dilemma. I love flying. I feel blessed to fly one of the newest aircraft in the inventory, so I'm not going anywhere soon. I'd like to keep flying after my military retirement. Helos start at a slightly higher pay, but never get much more money than that. Plus, a significant percentage, probably a majority of civilian helo pilots are prior military. Airlines offer perks and a higher top end, but I don't know how it would be to leave the Gun Club, probably as a LtCol at 20, then be bidding for lines against some 22YO a few weeks later. Plus, the slave wages and standby might be a drag. However, having a military retirement means I'd still be earning Money on my ass, but whatever.

Perhaps I should save my money and buy a light civil airplane (hey this thread went full circle). Again, it might be strange going from a multi-million dollar machine to a bug smasher going 120.

 

[bluto]

If you do decide to get out at your first chance, definately stay in the reserves in some capacity (hopefully flying, but not too many spots anymore). Not only will you get a retirement at 60, you have the ability to supplement your income during the first few airline years and the potential to come back on orders if you should get fourloughed. Plenty of IA billets for everyone.

 

[Tom]

Are there many reserve flying jobs available in the Navy? I've gotten the impression they are scarce. Do many people take desk jobs while making an attempt at the airlines?

 

[A4sForever]

Are there many reserve flying jobs available in the Navy? I've gotten the impression they are scarce. Do many people take desk jobs while making an attempt at the airlines?

I suspect Reserve flying seats are much more scarce than they were when I got out ... but even then, they were very political. Who you knew, etc., etc. ... merit based considerations came in second place.

If I understand your second question correctly ... the answer is "no". You pay your money and take your chances ... you either stay in the Navy or you get out and rush the airlines, assuming they are hiring and you are marketable. Sometimes ... with certain CO's ... you MAY find yourself in effect flying a "desk" because the squadron/Wing higher-ups are pissed that you are getting out and consider it something akin to "disloyalty" ... it happens.

 

[Single Seat]

Continental Express pilots wear the same uniform as Continental pilots. Many try to impress people by introducing themselves as Continental pilots (or Delta, US Airways, etc depending on the express carrier they work for). Unless you saw him actually flying the plane, don't believe it. He probably jump seated and claimed it was his flight.

Yes, I'm call your friend a liar. The pendulum at the majors has not swing that far. There are still far more qualified pilots than jobs. They are not going to hire that low time. And if it is actually true, then he is one in a million and should be playing every lottery he comes across.

Dude I wasn't born yesterday. I know what a 757 FO looks like pulling up to the gate and I know the difference between company badges. I was in just as much disbeliefe as you. I saw it with my own eyes. Get over it. And yes I said the seven five.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Dude I wasn't born yesterday. I know what a 757 FO looks like pulling up to the gate and I know the difference between company badges. I was in just as much disbeliefe as you. I saw it with my own eyes. Get over it. And yes I said the seven five.

I wasn't born yesterday either.

PM me his name. I'll have it checked against the CAL seniority list. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it and apologize.

 

[scoober78]

Just throwing this out there...a recent American Eagle job posting listed the minimum req's as...

Commercial Pilot Certification with Multi-engine and Instrument ratings
Total fixed wing time to exceed 800 hours
Multi-engine fixed wing time in excess of 100 hours

 

[HAL Pilot]

Just throwing this out there...a recent American Eagle job posting listed the minimum req's as...

Commercial Pilot Certification with Multi-engine and Instrument ratings
Total fixed wing time to exceed 800 hours
Multi-engine fixed wing time in excess of 100 hours

Unfortunately for the traveling public, that is now probably realistic for the regional airlines.

 

[scoober78]

Unfortunately for the traveling public, that is now probably realistic for the regional airlines.

My thoughts exaclty...I was shocked. Even the junior IP's here, not only have more hours in total, but likely have much broader experience as well, and I am a believer that that breadth makes you better.

I will definitely look at my commuter pilot differently.

 

[HighDimension]

Unfortunately for the traveling public, that is now probably realistic for the regional airlines.

HAL (or any of the airline guys)-

Before the general public becomes terrified of the commuters, doesn't it still take around 2,000 hours to upgrade to captain? It would seem that if the FO is relatively inexperienced that would be offset by the experience of the Capt. Also, the CRJ's and ERJ's are so automated that they don't seem to need two experts in the cockpit. Wouldn't that even make the FO's hours less of an issue? I'm not trying to defend the regionals at all, I have NO experience with airline operations and I only know what prior ERAU grads have told me. I understand that two experienced pilots are better than one, but is it completely necessary with the advances in technology? I just wanted an educated opinion to validate or invalidate what others have told me.

HD

 

[HAL Pilot]

2000 hours is not a lot of experience to be flying a 40 to 70 pax jet as PIC, especially when you have an inexperienced low time FO and are shooting an approach to minimums. Then something breaks.....

Even with automation, it is a two man cockpit. Bad weather, the captain's concentrating on shooting the approach and ATC throws a weird clearance that leaves the low time FO clueless but a more experienced FO would understand. Now the captain has to focus attention away from flying to instruct the FO.

If the Captain suddenly starts having sever, incapacitating stomach cramps from the airport food he ate, can the 500 hour FO successfully shoot that approach to minimums single pilot in gusting 30 knot winds? What if the autopilot was MELed? It's happened to me as a FO.

ERAU and the pilot mills are famous for saying they turn out "airline pilots". In reality, they turn out inexperienced pilots just like the Mom & Pop part 61 flight school. Experience is more than just good monkey skills, it's knowing the operating environment, seeing a multitude of different situations, making decisions and reacting properly. This comes with time in the air, not from the school house.

I think the current regional airline minimums are too low and lower pax safety.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Here's an example of the types of shenanigans that go on at some regional airlines.

I was talking to one of my old instructors the other day, and he was telling about some of the crap that goes on at XXXX. He said that after their last leg of the day, the flight crews will change clothes in the cockpit and sneak out with the pax because guys from managment have been meeting them at the gate and giving them another leg to fly.

What a professional work environment.