Dear Boss, I quit! A letter to Air Force leadership....

[RotorHead04]

I had a bit more of the LCDRs are "Sir" in my HSL squadron, and the CO was the fucking wizard of Oz in his office and only seen for AOMs and HAC checks.

VAW was more of the Callsigns/Names, but for a point of reference, I was only a LT for a year in a 42 month tour in HSL (checked in as an Ensign), and was already a senior LT in zone for LCDR when I got to my VAW squadron.

Similar experience for me as HSC (EXP) ... since we have Dets, the O-4 became "Boss" or "Sir" for the duration of the Det. Same applied when he rolled home into OPS/MO. Most other O-4s not filling one of those two roles typically defaulted to the "O-4s are still JOs in the Navy" mentality with callsigns/first names being acceptable. I had the privilege of working for some great O-4s, both on Det and as AOPS/QAO. They kept it casual and honest, which I appreciated. There was never a doubt when "Sir" was warranted though

 

[CommodoreMid]

I think just by virtue of the size of VP wardrooms O-4 types become sir/ma'am. Not saying it's good/bad, but it makes sense. Same thing with SWOs. You have LTs coming back as DHs in charge of new ENS types, so if they want to be all into calling another JO sir/ma'am, then whatever. When they turn around and expect aviator JGs to do the same, wellllll.......

 

[Recovering LSO]

I think just by virtue of the size of VP wardrooms.....

and the fact that you call them "wardrooms" instead of "ready rooms". I suppose the differentiation is required because you have enlisted aircrew running around, but "wardroom" has a very blackshoe ring to it

 

[Gatordev]

They kept it casual and honest, which I appreciated. There was never a doubt when "Sir" was warranted though

At the end of the day, that's probably the magical secret of leadership in those rolls. I tried to do the same thing as an OIC (we had several REGNAV junior LTs with us), even if the actual word "sir" was never uttered.

 

[Renegade One]

....because they shouldn't. A hinge trying to be too cool with the JOs/company grade is like the guy who goes to college and still hangs out at high school parties.

Perfect. Timing is probably relevant, as well. If you get pinned/frocked within the same squadron you checked into as a LT...you still have some "residual JO power" there. Enjoy it while you can. Next squadron you check into...you've been a "hinge" for life. No going back. You'll be given more responsibility and deserve a bit more in the way of respect. Inside the Ready Room, and certainly in the briefing room...do what you want/what the culture expects. Don't let it dribble outside. It will only lessen you, diminish your rank, and make you less effective. Unless that's what you want, of course.
If you're taking the pay...act like you earned it. No need to be a douchebag, but lead by example...not by "Hey, I'm still a cool dude".

 

[nittany03]

Most other O-4s not filling one of those two roles typically defaulted to the "O-4s are still JOs in the Navy" mentality . . .

Has this ever been uttered by someone who is NOT an O-4?

 

[Renegade One]

... "O-4s are still JOs in the Navy" ...

Technically true, but as George Orwell continues to remind generations of high school readers: "...some animals are more equal than others."

 

[707guy]

No need to be a douchebag, but lead by example...

That is the key...

 

[MIDNJAC]

I think there is a bit of a service difference though too since the Marines in the VMFA and VMAQ squadrons I deployed with didn't play by the same rule book though and sir for O-4s was a lot more common.

I would agree with this. I always call Marine Majors "sir" unless told otherwise, even though it is not the norm on the Navy tacair side. Maybe that is just my VMFA RAG upbringing (where O-3's called O-3 IPs "sir"), but that seemed to be the norm with them. Their XO's are also Majors IIRC, so I wouldn't want to not be calling one of them sir, going in line with our own customs and courtesies.

 

[Brett327]

Technically true, but as George Orwell continues to remind generations of high school readers: "...some animals are more equal than others."

Double plus good!

 

[scoober78]

(where O-3's called O-3 IPs "sir")

Don't even get me started on this...I think a few here...who shall remain nameless of course, expect this from me. Ain't gonna happen boys. You can have a "LT XXX or CAPT XXX" in front of another stud, but dream on sweetheart. I'll accept the hazing...to a point.

 

[MIDNJAC]

(where O-3's called O-3 IPs "sir")

Don't even get me started on this...I think a few here...who shall remain nameless of course, expect this from me. Ain't gonna happen boys. You can have a "LT XXX or CAPT XXX" in front of another stud, but dream on sweetheart. I'll accept the hazing...to a point.

Given your fleet re-tread status, that is even more absurd. Don't give into the man, you are probably a lineal number or two at most junior to the majority of those dudes.......not even trying to rationalize it to the point that this detail would matter, but just pointing out how especially absurd this is. I know there is some senior to junior Marine Capt blue on blue out there, but I always thought that was pretty infantry-centric. Tell me these aren't Navy LT's at least

 

[scoober78]

Given your fleet re-tread status, that is even more absurd. Don't give into the man, you are probably a lineal number or two at most junior to the majority of those dudes.......not even trying to rationalize it to the point that this detail would matter, but just pointing out how especially absurd this is.

Oh...and let's not forget about 7 years more time in the Navy...3 years more sea time and more flight hours by a third. Don't get me wrong...I have tons to learn from them, but get real boys.

 

[nittany03]

Oh...and let's not forget about 7 years more time in the Navy...3 years more sea time and more flight hours by a third. Don't get me wrong...I have tons to learn from them, but get real boys.

So you're saying VT-7 is back to being the Gestapo squadron of Meridian? As an old man once said, the more things change . . .

 

[MasterBates]

I had a few try to pull the call me SIR as a LT retread.

I reminded them that I was senior to them, if they really wanted to go down the lineal number dick measuring route.

The WORST place about that? VT-120. I mean VAW-120.

E-2 RAG.. Where LT NFO Instructors want to be called SIR because of my "RP" status. I can only imagine the fun if there was not a COD guy as CO. Was treated more like "one of the guys" as a newly winged Ensign in HSL-40 back when I winged, than at 120 as a senior LT.