CTN1Sid
ENS
Well we arent all surgeons. An IW, Intel, Supply, IP, SWO Officer, etc... WILL go to the fleet and when they do, there will be no distinction from them as a DCO than any other officer in their designator.
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DCOIC instruction vs ODS/OCS
- Thread starter PenguinGal
- Start date
Well we arent all surgeons. An IW, Intel, Supply, IP, SWO Officer, etc... WILL go to the fleet and when they do, there will be no distinction from them as a DCO than any other officer in their designator.
What's the point of a DCO SWO?
CTN1Sid
ENS
DCO is just a commissioning program; thats all. The Officers it produces are not restricted or no different than their active duty counter parts in way except for the initial training pipeline. The DCO program is not something like LDO, or CWO, which produce restricted or "specialty" officers. This is my point. Yes medical/dental/JAG officers are special cases, but outside of those designators I dont understand why more "indoctrination" is not required of civilian DCOs as it is with every other commissioning program.
What's the point of the indoctrination? What specifically are you trying to accomplish and teach, and what is the specific amount of time you need to do it?
The intent of DCO, as I understand it, is to take somebody with civilian skillsets that plug in more or less directly into military ones and quickly indoctrinate them. Explain what "general naval officer" military skillsets specifically you would instruct on in an expanded DCO course that you believe are deficient in current DCO products.
This! ^^^
AOCS certainly didn't do it for me over 16 weeks…and I'm not sure I could have been described as much more than "safe for training" for the first handful of years. MAYBE…at the mid-senior LT level I was "functionally literate", and somewhere in the DH period was deemed "safe for solo". It was a journey…not a destination.
Never attended, you understand, but I doubt even USNA or ROTC programs think they can teach you "all you need to know about the Naval Officer side of your job" in the 4 years allotted to them. It's mostly OJT…and upon retirement, I STILL didn't know it all.
Why are medical/dental/JAG special cases? What's the difference between a medical DCO with 4-8 years of schooling and an IP DCO with 4-6 years of academics and 10 years of industry experience? What's easier to impart on a newly commissioned ensign....the knowledge and experience of 10 years in an industry or all of the "officership" learned somewhere like OCS? I guess it might be tough to teach a GS-14/15 or industry expert how to manage people or write a fitrep...
CTN1Sid
ENS
Again... The intent is not to teach all that you need to know to be an officer during Indoc, it is to establish a foundation to build on and a baseline level of knowledge. It is also a shaping tool to weed out people not fit for the role. If you quit during OCS, or ROTC, or the USNA, or BUDS, or Chief Indoc.. Then maybe you just didnt want it bad enough and were deemed "not fit to lead". How many people do you think DOR during those programs that otherwise wouldnt if they didnt have to go through them?
Being an officer and leading people in war is not something that somebody should be able to just fill out some paperwork and "do" because a board liked your package; there should be more to it. I just think you should have to prove yourself and your commitment as well as establish a baseline level of knowledge before you are put in a position of respect and leadership.
Being an officer and leading people in war is not something that somebody should be able to just fill out some paperwork and "do" because a board liked your package; there should be more to it. I just think you should have to prove yourself and your commitment as well as establish a baseline level of knowledge before you are put in a position of respect and leadership.
CTN1Sid
ENS
The difference is that Medical/Jag/Dental officers have HIGHLY specialized training and skills that are rare, yet extremely valuable and necessary in the military. This is why these types of Officers almost always come in at an elevated rank. Because if the Navy was going to make a 50 year old surgeon an Ensign with O-1 pay who has to listen to a 23 year old LT then these established professionals would never sign up.
DCOs are not expected to lead people in battle - period. Nor is any JAG, surgeon, or IW weenie, active or reserve. Yes, they wear the same uniform as active duty and have the same ID card, but it's simply not the same. No 'weeding out' necessary.
You're a First Class - I assume you have been on active duty, so you should clearly understand this distinction. Your frustration should be more aimed at the program in general than the accession pipeline.
CTN1Sid
ENS
Are you freaking kidding me?! I dont know who or what you are but you should have a little more respect. The Navy is not just all about ships and ordnance on target. This is the new Navy. We are fighting a Cyber War. ALL of the IW Officers in my command have deployed to the front lines and lead people in battle. Many of the IWs that I know (as this is the community that I am in) are still suffering from major PTSD. A Reserve Intel or IW officer is much MORE likely to be called to serve on the front lines than an Active duty one as the Reserves is the predominant pool for IAs. And I guarantee you that an O-2, O-3 is not going to be pushing buttons, they will be there to execute orders, provide strategic guidance, lead missions and make decisions that will impact the people under their command.
So all of the DCOs in my battalion and the other reserve Seabee units who mobilized to Iraq and Afghanistan and led missions outside the wire were not leading people into battle? Got it. They all stayed safe and sound in their camps while the real officers led people into battle. Roger that!
The point of CEC being RL (no U) is that it's not supposed to be a front line type job. Yeah, reserves got shafted with the brunt of the sandbox jobs, but that demand signal has slowed to a trickle and it will be gone in no time so no worries there. Also, how many years do you have to be in the Navy before you Mob? The Navy wasn't sending brand new reservists on deployments - so don't get too dramatic.
Choose your rate, choose your fate. The active duty has actual Navy jobs to do.
LFCFan
*Insert nerd wings here*
Can we get the dislike buttons back?
Even though I'm active duty, I would like to think that as an intel O (and there are DCO intel Os, a lot of whom went IA) I do "actual Navy work."
I would venture to argue that more IDC officers have been in more danger, whether it is supporting Army or other ground forces, or being around exploding IEDs in OEF/OIF etc, than SWOs have since WW2. Yeah, you guys do the TLAM thing (which is hugely important, don't get me wrong) but realistically no one is shooting back at you. People ARE shooting at others in my community, so to say that intel doesn't do "real Navy work" is laughably ignorant. And sure, intel isn't ship driving so it might not be "real navy" but it follows from that that any exped, SOF, or aviation work isn't "real Navy" either.
You misunderstand what I meant. As an active duty intel guy, you are doing real, good Navy work, at whatever active command you're at - supporting someone with a URL star on his sleeve. Reservists, God bless them, were low hanging fruit for sandbox IAs because sending them didn't affect any GFM at all - that's what I mean by real Navy.
Let's not get too dramatic - I'm at a command with tons of 1830s. There is a way more booger eating than war fighting going on in the intel community.