DCOIC Gouge for those about to commission as a DCO

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

"However, ODS split option courses have been developed to more adequately
support civilian professional schedules. A limited number of split option
quotas will be available over two separate training periods throughout the
year." This is very nice to hear.

Unless you’re a doctor you are going to ODS - sorry.

 

[bubblehead]

Unless you’re a doctor you are going to ODS - sorry.

That was my point. The split classes are only for doctor's because their community b*tched loud enough about it with the excuse that making a doctor go to a five week course would hurt the medical corps' ability to recruit people for direct commissions.

I found their reasoning to be pretty arrogant.

 

[Flash]

That was my point. The split classes are only for doctor's because their community b*tched loud enough about it with the excuse that making a doctor go to a five week course would hurt the medical corps' ability to recruit people for direct commissions.

I found their reasoning to be pretty arrogant.

It may be a bit arrogant but they have a point, I am pretty sure the Navy is hurting pretty bad for medical professionals and if the community says splitting ODS into two segments the Navy would be far more inclined to do so for them than other communities that aren't hurting for recruits.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

That was my point. The split classes are only for doctor's because their community b*tched loud enough about it with the excuse that making a doctor go to a five week course would hurt the medical corps' ability to recruit people for direct commissions.

I found their reasoning to be pretty arrogant.

Big Navy is hurting for reserve doctors, especially those who possess critical/sought-after skills. There are many who want to serve, but can only accomodate one weekend a month + two weeks a year and not a day more. They have private practices/businesses and cannot afford to be gone for an extended period of time. This is why DCOIC will (somewhat) stay to accomodate them.

That is fine. Better to have them serve and assist the Navy than to not serve at all. These folks are not reserve Intel/IWC where they're lined out the door to serve.

 

[Bones]

"They have private practices/businesses and cannot afford to be gone for an extended period of time. This is why DCOIC will (somewhat) stay to accomodate them."

I'm not saying you're wrong in all cases, but most hospital doctors I know take a significant amount of time off in large blocks to prevent burnout. The ones in private practice almost always operate in small teams or pairs so that there is a continuity of patient care even if one of them wants to go on vacation for a month or so. (Which I have seen often)

So while it might help recruitment to accommodate them, their reasoning is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

I had originally been told way back when I initially started the application process I'd be going to OCS (bad gouge abounds!), so personally I'm pleased DCOIC is getting merged with ODS which is a good step forward and seems like a happy medium. I've repeatedly been told DCOIC is a lot tougher these days than it used to be, and I know people who were worried. But really there's nothing to worry about. It was still very easy, and I was sick for most of it to boot. I thoroughly enjoyed my time in the course, but I was a bit disappointed.

When I can find my journal, I'll make a comment to walk through what the day-to-day at DCOIC was like. Sure there's only 2 classes left, but maybe it'll be useful for someone.

Big Navy is hurting for reserve doctors,

Nothing to do with special accommodations for training, but as a reserve officer looking to do something related to the field he works in, is Big Navy hurting for software people? I've noticed and have been told time and time again by various folks within the Navy and from DISA that the Navy and the DoD at large need lots of "unicorn" software devs within the armed forces. The issue at hand is there doesn't exactly appear to be a place for such people within the Navy Reserve (the tiny CWE community is only active component if I'm not mistaken).

While the Navy says it needs such people, the only options I've been offered over the long term are doing some work supporting particular CONUS commands administratively, maybe but doubtfully chasing after jihadis (long story but wouldn't exactly be a first rodeo), or watching cement dry in Africa (essentially what it boils down to) after finishing qualifications. All good stuff, but would anyone know where experienced software folks in the reserve can use their skills for the Navy?

 

[bubblehead]

Big Navy is hurting for reserve doctors, especially those who possess critical/sought-after skills. There are many who want to serve, but can only accommodate one weekend a month + two weeks a year and not a day more.

Nothing against you, but the medical communities argument is bullsh*t. There are many of us in NAVIFOR ratings and designators who could make the same argument: we can only support one weekend a month + two weeks a year because we are in senior leadership roles in the private sector and doing more than the bare minimum would have an impact. This was the case for me which is why I bent the knee and went VTU for a couple of years.

If medical people are this critical (trauma/ortho surgeon's, anesthesiologists, etc.) to Big Navy, they are going to be doing much more than the one weekend a month plus two weeks a year. The medical people in the Reserve OHSU unit at my NOSC are either sitting on their a** in the admin spaces or classroom or are in medical helping with PHA's and PFA waivers.

In looking at their mob stats, they are numerous other designators who are mobilizing at a nigher percentage.

 

[Flash]

Nothing against you, but the medical communities argument is bullsh*t. There are many of us in NAVIFOR ratings and designators who could make the same argument: we can only support one weekend a month + two weeks a year because we are in senior leadership roles in the private sector and doing more than the bare minimum would have an impact. This was the case for me which is why I bent the knee and went VTU for a couple of years.

Not to burst your bubble those ratings and designators don't have the same skills and training as docs and nurses and aren't as critically needed by the Navy. Come to think of it they go through more school and training than pretty much anyone else in the military so yeah, they are that special. They even have their own retirement age, 68 instead of 62 like everyone else.

Want proof? Last time I checked, no other designator was commissioning 63 year-old Commanders.

If medical people are this critical (trauma/ortho surgeon's, anesthesiologists, etc.) to Big Navy, they are going to be doing much more than the one weekend a month plus two weeks a year. The medical people in the Reserve OHSU unit at my NOSC are either sitting on their a** in the admin spaces or classroom or are in medical helping with PHA's and PFA waivers.

They are and they do, they are regularly mobilized and many volunteer to do more than the minimum of 1 year out of every 5 years. They often have their own practices or if they are senior enough, run hospital departments/sections. I DEMOB'd with some docs and nurses coming back from 5-6 months in Afghanistan treating casualties, and many were on their 2nd or 3rd rodeo by that time (~8 years ago now). One CAPT in my hooch was the head of his hospital's trauma department and several others talked about having to make extensive arrangements to keep their practices going. So what if they burn time like many others on drill weekends, when they go downrange they are doing literal critical jobs.

So you ain't that special, and neither am I for that matter, so get over it. If big Navy decides to accommodate them by splitting their initial officer training up to get a few more docs and nurses then I am more than fine with that and so should everyone else who could find themselves being treated by one of them, others whining about it is only a bonus.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Nothing to do with special accommodations for training, but as a reserve officer looking to do something related to the field he works in, is Big Navy hurting for software people? I've noticed and have been told time and time again by various folks within the Navy and from DISA that the Navy and the DoD at large need lots of "unicorn" software devs within the armed forces. The issue at hand is there doesn't exactly appear to be a place for such people within the Navy Reserve (the tiny CWE community is only active component if I'm not mistaken).

Short answer: Yes. Big Navy is looking to reward those who possess certain engineering skills to commission at higher paygrades.

Long answer: Talking with a few EDO reserve types, their intent is to start spreading out to the cyber side and that convo took place maybe 1-2 years ago. No clue where they are with that these days.

 

[bubblehead]

So you ain't that special

Never implied I was special.

They are and they do, they are regularly mobilized and many volunteer to do more than the minimum of 1 year out of every 5 years. They often have their own practices or if they are senior enough, run hospital departments/sections.

When the change to ODS was made, the argument from the medical community was that they would have recruiting issues because the doctor candidates could not afford to take a 5 week course (i.e., more than the bare minimum: 1 weekend a month + 2 weeks a year).

My emphasis from a portion of the CNRFC N7 email.

BACKGROUND: In January 2018, NSTC conducted an independent review of their
courses (DCOIC, ODS, OCS and LDO/CWO) to determine if the required
Professional Core Competencies (PCCs) were being met by all courses. It was
determined that 2 weeks was an insufficient amount of time to meet the
required PCCs and OCNR/CNRFC was informed in August that DCOIC would be
eliminated starting in FY19. As that would be too little time to prepare
the Force to shift gears, CNRFC/OCNR, NSTC, PERS, and CNRC agreed to conduct
a working group to determine a better way forward. We conducted a survey of
DCOs asking them if a shift from 2 weeks to 5 weeks would have greatly
affected their decision to become a Navy DCO. The greatest response came
from the medical/dental communities in that it would severely impact their
yearly accession goals and ability to attend accession training and the
survey bore this out.

If they are mobilizing as much as people are saying, then how is that in and of itself not impacting yearly accession goals? This data is a couple of months old.

2105 - Medical Corps
2209 - Dental Corps
2305 - Medical Corps
2905 - Nurse Corps



I am not saying doctors are not important, but the argument being made for a split ODS is weak. Just call a duck a duck, cause this mob data paints a different picture.

 

[Flash]

I am not saying doctors are not important, but the argument being made for a split ODS is weak. Just call a duck a duck, cause this mob data paints a different picture.

How about their recruiting numbers? Are they meeting them? What is their manning like? If so, why are they commissioning 63 year-olds and have a retirement age waiverable to 68? Even your chart doesn't tell the whole story like how many times have those folks MOB'd previously? A single data point doesn't show the big picture.

I still wonder what the big deal is though, who really gives a shit if they split the 5 week requirement into two parts for a few docs and nurses? Navy types who aren't DCO's would probably laugh anyone complaining about that, or that the officer accession program went from 2 to 5 weeks. I'm laughing. Seriously, get over it.

Never implied I was special.

I like that the chart shows my designator is pretty special, or least well-MOB'd.

 

[bryanteagle6]

Do you think they will let me break it up into 5 seperate weeks?! That way ill get 10 travel days and really build up my travel points?!
?

(Obviously having fun here, but just incase it isnt obvious! Ha)

 

[bubblehead]

How about their recruiting numbers? Are they meeting them? What is their manning like? If so, why are they commissioning 63 year-olds and have a retirement age waiverable to 68? Even your chart doesn't tell the whole story like how many times have those folks MOB'd previously? A single data point doesn't show the big picture.

Again, the argument was that making a doctor attend a 5 week school -- ODS -- would severely impact their yearly accession goals and ability to attend accession training.

I still wonder what the big deal is though, who really gives a shit if they split the 5 week requirement into two parts for a few docs and nurses?

From a NAVIFOR perspective we have to tell DCO candidates that they will have to attend 5 weeks of ODS, followed by another active duty school. In the case of IP's, this is a 20 week course.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Short answer: Yes. Big Navy is looking to reward those who possess certain engineering skills to commission at higher paygrades.

Long answer: Talking with a few EDO reserve types, their intent is to start spreading out to the cyber side and that convo took place maybe 1-2 years ago. No clue where they are with that these days.

Thank you, much appreciated. We have an "IW" mentor group. They're a bit obscure, but it seems the spread is happening, slowly but surely. I'll explore and network continuously, including beyond the ED community. It's not always easy to find the right opportunities, but I'm glad to see the growing interest in software, ML, DS, IoT, etc.

Even your chart doesn't tell the whole story

Indeed not the whole story. I don't know if other communities are similar, but my community does a lot of ADSW directly supporting the active component. They aren't MOBs per se, but it directly works towards enhancing and maintaining the Fleet.

 

[bubblehead]

Indeed not the whole story. I don't know if other communities are similar, but my community does a lot of ADSW directly supporting the active component. They aren't MOBs per se, but it directly works towards enhancing and maintaining the Fleet.

FWIW, ADSW and other orders were not part of the argument.