DCO/IWC Qualifications with STEM Background

[Geobrass]

I am interested in applying to the Navy DCO program in the IW community, in particular INTEL (1835). I am aware this is a very competitive program, but I have a question related to the STEM nature of the INTEL program. Many AW forum posts ask for qualification advice and are typically of the type "I have a non-STEM degree from a great university, and I have a background in X, am I competitive for DCO programs?" In my particular case I have a very strong STEM background (see below), but no direct intel experience. I don't see many posts covering this situation, so I figured I would ask here for thoughts and advice for improving my chances.

My specific background:

• Age = 34
• No prior military experience
• Formal Education (major research university in the Southwest USA):
  • B.S. Physics (3.4 GPA)
  • M.S. Electrical Engineering (4.0 GPA)
  • Ph.D. Electrical Engineering (4.0 GPA with distinction)
  • Graduate work supported by USAF, in topics related to directed energy systems; included experience at USAF directed energy warfare facilities
  • Received competitive scholarships from USAF and NASA
  • Received an achievement award in my R&D field (top graduate student worldwide in this area)
• Currently employed (8+ years) at a major DOE/NNSA laboratory working in nuclear weapon (NW) science & engineering:
  • Several years experience in device engineering related to NW systems used by the USN and USAF
  • Team Lead for very large high-risk R&D projects (including leadership of 30 direct/indirect reports) associated with new modeling/analysis software for national security applications
  • Experience with analysis of devices relevant to directed energy (DE) systems
  • Fast-track to R&D management, presently the Manager/ Department Head of a team of scientists/engineers/technologists (20 direct and/or indirect reports) working in national security work relevant to NW programs
  • Graduated from 1-year course for selected NW leaders that includes topics in nuclear physics & engineering, USN and USAF systems, geo-political strategy, and some intelligence topics
  • Received an NNSA Defense Program Award of Excellence (as the team leader of a project)
• Current DOE/NNSA security clearance equivalent to TS
• I have other experience for "whole person" assessment, but did not include in detail here

My specific questions:

• I do not have a formal background in foreign policy, nor direct experience in the intelligence community (although I do "cross paths" occasionaly). I do not speak a critical foreign language. My primary background is in "hard" science/engineering topics in DE and NW, and less on "soft" topics like information/cryptography. I am a very quick study, and I am interested in the IW community specifically. Am I still competitive, given my background?
• I've read a lot of posts noting the billets available in the DC / East Coast area (and the competitive nature of those assignments), but is there information on West Coast assignments? Do reserve IWC officers drill in San Diego, or elsewhere? (I am located in New Mexico.)

Thank you for your time responding!

 

[fieldrat]

My specific questions:

• I do not have a formal background in foreign policy, nor direct experience in the intelligence community (although I do "cross paths" occasionaly). I do not speak a critical foreign language. My primary background is in "hard" science/engineering topics in DE and NW, and less on "soft" topics like information/cryptography. I am a very quick study, and I am interesting in in IW community specifically. Am I still competitive, given my background?
• I've read a lot of posts noting the billets available in the DC / East Coast area (and the competitive nature of those assignments), but is there information on West Coast assignments? Do reserve IWC officers drill in San Diego, or elsewhere? (I am located in New Mexico.)

Thank you for your time responding!

It's a sad day when cryptography is binned as a 'soft topic', lol...

You're well qualified, and have as good a chance as anyone.

Yes there are units on the west coast (or at least provide support in that general direction).

 

[NevarYalnal]

It's a sad day when cryptography is binned as a 'soft topic', lol...

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't intel technically the "softest" of all the IWC designators? The PAs look for relevant science degrees for OCEANOs and IP/Crypto need a calculus based physics sequence as part of your coursework.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Welcome Geobrass.

Yes, you're competitive. That doesn't mean you will get selected on your first attempt, but if joining the Navy Reserve is important to you, it does mean you should apply and reapply until you get selected.

I think you'd be a good fit for Intel - better than IP or CW. You would also be a fit for EDO if you want to be a shipbuilder instead of an intelligence analyst. Just know that if you're picked up for Intel, there is no guarantee you'll end up working on C-WMD, nonproliferation, or counting Oscar IIs. And if you're picked up for EDO, there is no guarantee you'll end up working on the reactors in CVNs/SSNs or the payloads in SSBNs. Such is the nature of the Navy Reserve.

Basically, between Intel and EDO, it's whatever you think is more fun. After all, it's basically a 2nd career that can be as similar to or different from your day job as you want it to be. With your degree, you could probably even go after CEC/Seabee, if you wanted to get sandy.

 

[fieldrat]

Normally, I'd agree with you that INTEL (as the Navy does it), seems "soft", but not any more.

In the past couple years, I've seen INTEL be leveraged in a very technical sense to improve operational mission to a large degree. The best INTEL officers (imho) are those that have a strong technical background, and know what to look for, and what to present to decision makers in charge of technical folks.

 

[NevarYalnal]

Normally, I'd agree with you that INTEL (as the Navy does it), seems "soft", but not any more.

In the past couple years, I've seen INTEL be leveraged in a very technical sense to improve operational mission to a large degree. The best INTEL officers (imho) are those that have a strong technical background, and know what to look for, and what to present to decision makers in charge of technical folks.

thanks for the clarification!

 

[Geobrass]

Thank you all for the quick replies and thoughts!

It's a sad day when cryptography is binned as a 'soft topic', lol...

I caused some confusion on this one - I didn't mean to imply soft = easy. I mean to say my primary experience has been in hard (as in "physical") test/evaluation topics, such as DE and NW, and less so for the soft (as in "software") aspects.

Just know that if you're picked up for Intel, there is no guarantee you'll end up working on C-WMD, nonproliferation, or counting Oscar IIs. And if you're picked up for EDO, there is no guarantee you'll end up working on the reactors in CVNs/SSNs or the payloads in SSBNs. Such is the nature of the Navy Reserve.

Thank you for the notes here, and I completely agree and understand. I didn't know about NW topics before I worked at an DOE/NNSA laboratory, but now I have a key passion for this mission. My intent is to demonstrate, through my experiences, that I have the ability to learn quickly and apply critical thinking to challenging technical problems that could benefit the USN. I'm excited for the opportunity.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I am interested in applying to the Navy DCO program in the IW community, in particular INTEL (1835). I am aware this is a very competitive program, but I have a question related to the STEM nature of the INTEL program. Many AW forum posts ask for qualification advice and are typically of the type "I have a non-STEM degree from a great university, and I have a background in X, am I competitive for DCO programs?" In my particular case I have a very strong STEM background (see below), but no direct intel experience. I don't see many posts covering this situation, so I figured I would ask here for thoughts and advice for improving my chances.

My specific background:

• Age = 34
• No prior military experience
• Formal Education (major research university in the Southwest USA):
  • B.S. Physics (3.4 GPA)
  • M.S. Electrical Engineering (4.0 GPA)
  • Ph.D. Electrical Engineering (4.0 GPA with distinction)
  • Graduate work supported by USAF, in topics related to directed energy systems; included experience at USAF directed energy warfare facilities
  • Received competitive scholarships from USAF and NASA
  • Received an achievement award in my R&D field (top graduate student worldwide in this area)
• Currently employed (8+ years) at a major DOE/NNSA laboratory working in nuclear weapon (NW) science & engineering:
  • Several years experience in device engineering related to NW systems used by the USN and USAF
  • Team Lead for very large high-risk R&D projects (including leadership of 30 direct/indirect reports) associated with new modeling/analysis software for national security applications
  • Experience with analysis of devices relevant to directed energy (DE) systems
  • Fast-track to R&D management, presently the Manager/ Department Head of a team of scientists/engineers/technologists (20 direct and/or indirect reports) working in national security work relevant to NW programs
  • Graduated from 1-year course for selected NW leaders that includes topics in nuclear physics & engineering, USN and USAF systems, geo-political strategy, and some intelligence topics
  • Received an NNSA Defense Program Award of Excellence (as the team leader of a project)
• Current DOE/NNSA security clearance equivalent to TS
• I have other experience for "whole person" assessment, but did not include in detail here

My specific questions:

• I do not have a formal background in foreign policy, nor direct experience in the intelligence community (although I do "cross paths" occasionaly). I do not speak a critical foreign language. My primary background is in "hard" science/engineering topics in DE and NW, and less on "soft" topics like information/cryptography. I am a very quick study, and I am interested in the IW community specifically. Am I still competitive, given my background?
• I've read a lot of posts noting the billets available in the DC / East Coast area (and the competitive nature of those assignments), but is there information on West Coast assignments? Do reserve IWC officers drill in San Diego, or elsewhere? (I am located in New Mexico.)

Thank you for your time responding!

I will echo what the others have said in that you have a great background and degrees/GPA's.

Given your background and experience you should really look at EDO.

When it comes to your panel interview the area where I was at the mentality was if you are not working in the field they will not give you 10's, no 10's and that means almost no chance, so test the waters to see what the views are where you are at.

 

[Hair Warrior]

When it comes to your panel interview the area where I was at the mentality was if you are not working in the field they will not give you 10's, no 10's and that means almost no chance, so test the waters to see what the views are where you are at.

Respectfully, that’s not always the case with Intel. They have selected lawyers off the street with zero intel experience. I served with a civilian researcher at a naval lab who got picked up for Intel, but had no intel experience, so they do appreciate scientists and engineers. The selection rate went up last year due to demand. I would advise the OP to apply for what he wants most - even if it’s less similar to his day job. If you want it more, you’ll work for it more.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Respectfully, that’s not always the case with Intel. They have selected lawyers off the street with zero intel experience. I served with a civilian researcher at a naval lab who got picked up for Intel, but had no intel experience, so they do appreciate scientists and engineers. The selection rate went up last year due to demand. I would advise the OP to apply for what he wants most - even if it’s less similar to his day job. If you want it more, you’ll work for it more.

You mean like Hunter Biden

You may have misread what I posted, I was talking about the panel interview and the views of the members which does vary depending on the area, if the panel interview decides that experience in the field is important to them and only gives him 8's or 9's then when he gets to the pro board he is probably going to be sunk as anything below a 10 makes it very difficult for the pro board to make that selection, if the panel interviewers are not valuing Intel experience as much and give him 10's then when he gets to the pro board he would have a shot.

 

[bubblehead]

Given your background and experience you should really look at EDO.

No kidding. Don't waste your time with Intel.

Not that I want to lose a good candidate, but have you spoken to the Air Force to learn about their programs as well?

 

[ABMD]

Welcome Geobrass.

Yes, you're competitive. That doesn't mean you will get selected on your first attempt, but if joining the Navy Reserve is important to you, it does mean you should apply and reapply until you get selected.

I think you'd be a good fit for Intel - better than IP or CW. You would also be a fit for EDO if you want to be a shipbuilder instead of an intelligence analyst. Just know that if you're picked up for Intel, there is no guarantee you'll end up working on C-WMD, nonproliferation, or counting Oscar IIs. And if you're picked up for EDO, there is no guarantee you'll end up working on the reactors in CVNs/SSNs or the payloads in SSBNs. Such is the nature of the Navy Reserve.

Basically, between Intel and EDO, it's whatever you think is more fun. After all, it's basically a 2nd career that can be as similar to or different from your day job as you want it to be. With your degree, you could probably even go after CEC/Seabee, if you wanted to get sandy.

To the OP, yes you could try for CEC/SEABEE and you will get dirty (FTX) and being in Battalion will really be eye-opening, but you could also end-up with NAVFAC (Navy Facilities Engineering Systems Command).

OP also mentioned he was in NM and wondering where people drill, Intel specifically. I know a SUPPO in ABQ who had to commute to HOU on his own dime as an O1. Such is life in the Reserves, travel is expected.

Your chances are 100% of non-select if you don't apply.

 

[Geobrass]

Thank you all again for the useful thoughts and notes! I've pulled out a few comments here to elaborate:

Given your background and experience you should really look at EDO.

Thank you for the comment here! The DCO and IWC officer programs really appeal to me because the initial training requirements (at least for the first 1-2 years) appear to be much more compatible with an "aggressive" civilian career? I actually have a very fulfilling civilian career now, working in critical science & technology areas that intersect with the national security world, and so I would like to be less disruptive to my current obligations (if I can). I believe this is one of the principal benefits of the DCO program? My primary goal is to find a way to contribute meaningfully to the Navy mission as a "second career", as HairWarrior mentioned, along-side my civilian career.

The EDO and CEC routes do seem very interesting, but also appear have much more lengthy initial training requirements?

The few times I've crossed paths with the INTEL community I've liked it. It appears there are a lot of policy types in the INTEL community, but I really think strong technically-oriented folks could contribute more to these missions, helping people understand threats, etc.

I am not driven to acquire a URL designator, also. I just want to contribute. I am perfectly fine collecting info and delivering an assessment that enables another URL leader to make a quality decision. My passion is really around high-technology assets (DE, NW, IW, etc.) more than other engineering disciplines (facility, construction, utility, etc.).

Not that I want to lose a good candidate, but have you spoken to the Air Force to learn about their programs as well?

I looked briefly into USAF programs, but my understanding (similar to EDO/CEC) is that the initial training requirements are less compatible with my current civilian career? The active duty and reserve components take the same trainings? The DCO program appears uniquely compatible.

OP also mentioned he was in NM and wondering where people drill, Intel specifically. I know a SUPPO in ABQ who had to commute to HOU on his own dime as an O1. Such is life in the Reserves, travel is expected.

I am fully aware there are no oceans in New Mexico! (This is a joke.) I am compatible with travel to my duty station, even if paid out-of-pocket (I just want to contribute meaningfully; I have a good civilian salary so I don't really need the extra pay). I am just curious because flights from Albuquerque to San Diego are much more flexible than ones to DC, if I need to travel regularly at least one weekend a month.

Your chances are 100% of non-select if you don't apply.

I am planning to apply to my first choice (IWC/INTEL) over the next year, at this stage I am just looking to acquire information to make the quality decision and maximize my chance for success. I want to walk into the OR's office already having completed my homework. Thank you!

Hopefully these thoughts make sense!

 

[Hair Warrior]

URL is not an option for reserve applicants who have never been a qualified URL officer previously.

Intel has the most units in the Southwest - there are solid Intel units in UT, CO, and obviously the CNIFR in TX.

EDO has a long (4 yr) pipeline. CEC can earn their SCW pin at around 24 months, if they are motivated enough. Same with Intel, getting IWO pin at around 24 months if motivated enough.

If Intel sounds the coolest to you, and you will work the hardest in that path if selected, then by all means follow your passion.

If your goal is to maximize your chances, you should start working with an OR today - preferably one who specializes in the reserve DIRCOM process.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

If your goal is to maximize your chances, you should start working with an OR today - preferably one who specializes in the reserve DIRCOM process.

This ↑ there are too many who get an enlisted recruiter that says go enlisted, or a OR that has not been around the DIRCOM process, a good recruiter should also have an idea or be able to ask to find out what types of things they like to see at the panel board interview.