Just to throw it out there, is there a JAG opportunity? If your trying to get in the game there is something to being said that JAG's who are supporting rules of engagement type decision making in real world operations might get you want you are looking for vice a silkies wearing PowerPoint operator. Not my area of expertise but there might be something there for you
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DCO Intel Eligibility & Process
- Thread starter DC_Lawyer
- Start date
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
Must have a year of military experience for JAG
egiv
Well-Known Member
Honest question: what is the appeal of commissioning directly into the reserves without any prior service? To me the Navy is an all-or-nothing kind of deal - you're either owned by them and put up with mountains of BS, long hours, and stress in order to do some cool shit every now and then and hopefully make a difference, or you're not. I can't fathom trying to learn how to Navy part-time while also working another job full-time. A year-long MOB doesn't fit logically into a Navy career progression and interrupts your actual life. I do completely understand going reserves after active duty; you have experience and skills that you can bring to the fight in a time of need.
So is it the resume? The satisfaction of "serving?" Why not just go active duty?
So is it the resume? The satisfaction of "serving?" Why not just go active duty?
@egiv the truth is not everyone commissions (I know of someone who turned down her commission after getting selected), not everyone finishes their initial qualifications, not everyone invests the time to “learn Navy,” and not everyone mobilizes before going to the IRR. I won’t speculate on or disagree with their reasons, but basically the Navy isn’t their primary salary so they can afford to. Millington anticipates and factors in a certain amount of attrition between DCO selection board numbers and the number of LT’s who have mob’d at least once. It’s not 0%.
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Seriously, forget Navy JAG and go speak with the Air Force recruiters.
What are you talking about? Rather, where are you getting this? I ask because I've read the OPAs, Community Briefs, Community Health briefs, and others. Yes, the material discusses manning, but nowhere that I have seen does the material discuss anything about O3's and MOB'ing.
Correct, and each OIC is different. I was sandbagged the first time I applied for DCO because the OIC at the time for my region was prejudicial towards people who were not current Reservists. That OIC departed and a new one arrived before the next board, and I re-submitted based on feedback from the board (ie, get two more panel interviews). And, what do you know, I got selected. I bumped in to the new OIC during NIOBC and he basically told me what had happened and why. Fast forward a few years and that OIC who sandbagged me was back in region and I bumped in to him with me wearing O3 bars and a big "f*ck you" smile on my face.
Correct, and that is the Navy's problem. Mobilizing is a possibility, it is not guaranteed.
BUPERS knows that if they accept 1,000 applicants to OCS, the number who decline and/or wash out for various reasons over the next X years (where X is their service obligation) will not be zero. It’s the same for DCO programs, just on a smaller scale.
The Navy loses its return on investment when a direct commission officer never mob’s before leaving the Navy. The cost of all the selection work, training, etc isn’t recouped by the DoD through DWEs and ATs alone.
Egiv,
I can only speak for myself here, but for me I just wanted to serve. I already had a generally established career as a DOD civilian, only one other person in my office had any military experience at all. I was also relatively old (33) when I commissioned. I'll be honest, I am looking at it as a second career, and I probably devote about 20 hours a week to it - but I'm in a cargo handling unit so the optempo is a bit higher than you might find in some of your stereotypical coffee and donuts reserve units.
I actually derive a significant amount of satisfaction from being in the reserves, I've learned a lot in my seven years. I don't think I'll be able to make a second career out of it, but it was definitely a worthwhile experience. I've met (and learned from) a lot of fantastic people, and only met a few scumbags (who I honestly feel I've learned more from).
I can only speak for myself here, but for me I just wanted to serve. I already had a generally established career as a DOD civilian, only one other person in my office had any military experience at all. I was also relatively old (33) when I commissioned. I'll be honest, I am looking at it as a second career, and I probably devote about 20 hours a week to it - but I'm in a cargo handling unit so the optempo is a bit higher than you might find in some of your stereotypical coffee and donuts reserve units.
I actually derive a significant amount of satisfaction from being in the reserves, I've learned a lot in my seven years. I don't think I'll be able to make a second career out of it, but it was definitely a worthwhile experience. I've met (and learned from) a lot of fantastic people, and only met a few scumbags (who I honestly feel I've learned more from).
The other services, especially the Army, have quite a few folks who join the reserves directly without doing an active duty stint first. In my experience the Navy Reserve is actually a little unusual in that the vast majority of folks, both enlisted and officer, were prior active duty while a lot of the Army, Air Force and Marine reserve folks, especially enlisted, were reservists from the beginning. There are exceptions in the Navy like reserve Seabees and Strategic Sealift folks but they are a small minority of the overall Navy Reserve.
The Navy Reserve DCO program is also unique that the folks become officers without having to go through OCS and often have their occupational training spaced out over weekends when they would normally drill. The other services usually require officers to go through a version of OCS/OTS and then the same occupational school as their active duty brethren or a close equivalent. The National Guard is a bit of a different animal but the initial training is often much more involved than Navy DCO program. That makes it an appealing program for professionals who still want to serve but not have to do a stint on active duty to get trained up or do it full time.
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I posted in another thread. The quad slides explain the manning/accession process and planning.
I think a lot of people, myself included over look the Army and choose the DCO/Enlistment route just because it fits better with the civilian side of life.
On my first enlistment - the fit with civilian life was definitely a major factor in my choosing the Navy Reserve over the Army or Marine Corp Reserve.
I'm very happy in the Navy Reserve so don't take the next statement as me dogging the Navy - I love the Navy - But in retrospect, I should not have let the initial training hurdles with the Army and Marine Corp drive me to the Navy as much as it did. I say that not because I'm unhappy, I've just come to realize that there is a lot more opportunity in other branches - particularly the Army.... It's just damned big.
I've been able to carve a notch out for myself in the Navy Reserve and I'm happy, but it took a long time, and I probably could have progressed much more quickly, had I taken the hit on the initial training requirements and joined the Army instead.
I would add a small point- each service is unique. If you just know you love the Navy, Army, Marine, Air Force, Coast Guard Culture - well that's your bag baby. The culture differences are real and some branches do suit some people better than others.
Myself - I find very flexible. I deployed with the Army as a Navy Reservist and found it very egalitarian - rank mattered but able people are given a lot of room to run. So my sand sailor time worked very well for me. That being said - people often say they find Navy Reservists to be the most flexible. So maybe the Navy was the fit for me all along. I love being in the Navy Reserve - just think looking at other branches is most certainly worth while.
You will find that when one person says no - another will usher you right in. Very true of the services. No as the answer - with any of this stuff that you want to do is very relative and often there is another way. Very few things are totally disqualifying. But the way may not be obvious and it might or might not be DCO Intel.
There's intel in every branch and like a million other things to do instead of intel that are really really really super cool! Finding what we want to do can be half the battle too so this may clouded things in ways. But the sentiment here - be open to looking at other branches and keep the bigger picture in mind. You want to do this - there's a way. You have to find it, someone has to say yes, and you might have to jump and jive a bit - but you want it, we want you - just have to find a way to align the stars...
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I'm not a naysayer generally - but I'll chime in here on the JAG angle - Unless you believe JAG is your calling -forget JAG! DCO is hyper competitive.
JAG is hyper competitive on steroids. The reserve side not as much but even then, it's a great gig, no one leaves, and it can take a few tries to squeeze in so don't put all your eggs in one basket. Each application take 6 months or so and they only run one or two boards a year. Start early and apply often if you want to go this route. If you are lucky it works first try. It not, this can take a few years.
I'm sure the poster went to a better law school than I did and was a better student. I was a lousy law student that graduated near the bottom of my class from a lower tier law school... Did pass the bar first time.
That being said, I did part time law school, working a full time job, working a part time job as a reservist, raising two kids ect... I say this just to illustrate I'm not a D-Bag... I got where I wanted - but it wasn't pretty.
JAG is looking for law pedigree! Top schools, top of class, editor or law review, moot court, ect.... They bet on people that shine on paper at the moment. JAG used to look at more and it could change, but at the moment you need to shine on paper quantitatively.
I met with the prior CO of the the Navy Justice School in the past (no the present CO). He was very nice guy, decent officer, and he told me upfront - he thought I was wasting my time applying to Navy JAG. He told me flat out - he did not need me. He was right. Navy JAG is for active duty only - unless you are prior JAG. Navy JAG is looking for Harvard, Yale, Columbia, big schools and top grade - and they don't have to look hard because they can get it.
If you have those creds and and active Navy JAG is your bag, by all means throw your hat into the ring, but if you lack the law creds - look around.
There's a way, but it might not be Navy JAG.
I'm not a naysayer generally - but I'll chime in here on the JAG angle - Unless you believe JAG is your calling -forget JAG! DCO is hyper competitive.
JAG is hyper competitive on steroids. The reserve side not as much but even then, it's a great gig, no one leaves, and it can take a few tries to squeeze in so don't put all your eggs in one basket. Each application take 6 months or so and they only run one or two boards a year. Start early and apply often if you want to go this route. If you are lucky it works first try. It not, this can take a few years.
I'm sure the poster went to a better law school than I did and was a better student. I was a lousy law student that graduated near the bottom of my class from a lower tier law school... Did pass the bar first time.
That being said, I did part time law school, working a full time job, working a part time job as a reservist, raising two kids ect... I say this just to illustrate I'm not a D-Bag... I got where I wanted - but it wasn't pretty.
JAG is looking for law pedigree! Top schools, top of class, editor or law review, moot court, ect.... They bet on people that shine on paper at the moment. JAG used to look at more and it could change, but at the moment you need to shine on paper quantitatively.
I met with the prior CO of the the Navy Justice School in the past (no the present CO). He was very nice guy, decent officer, and he told me upfront - he thought I was wasting my time applying to Navy JAG. He told me flat out - he did not need me. He was right. Navy JAG is for active duty only - unless you are prior JAG. Navy JAG is looking for Harvard, Yale, Columbia, big schools and top grade - and they don't have to look hard because they can get it.
If you have those creds and and active Navy JAG is your bag, by all means throw your hat into the ring, but if you lack the law creds - look around.
There's a way, but it might not be Navy JAG.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
and don't forget like RUFIO said, you have to have at least 1 year military experience for JAG, so he isn't even eligible.
I did put a girl in who's sister is or was AF attorney, she was very smart, near perfect GPA's for all her degrees, not sure if AF is still as competitive as USN JAG but if it is you pretty much need to walk on water to get in.