Crosswind Takeoff

[Herc_Dude]

Listen to how dramatic this tool makes it sound. "In the nick of time!!!" Disaster was averted!!!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f833aa0b9a

It was no walk in the park, but its not like its the first time this has been done (or caught on tape).

 

[Tom]

Posh, that's nothing. Many commercial jets do not put much or any crosswind correction in at all. This is due to the fact that engines may strike the ground.

 

[A4sForever]

.... Many commercial jets do not put much or any crosswind correction in at all. This is due to the fact that engines may strike the ground.

That's wrong ... 747 for example ... lots of engines ... lots of ground. You'd better put in X-wind corrections or you're off the runway ... you use TECHNIQUE ... and skill and cunning in the Whale so as to not skag an engine on terra firma.

 

[NavAir42]

Still a cool video though. Even if the reporter doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[A4sForever]

Old post:

The Boeing 747 is still a pure airplane -- although BIG --- there's no smoke and mirrors on approach. The basics still count ..... crab or wing down/top rudder. It usually depends on the actual wind/WX conditions--how stong is the X-wind, am I IFR (??), have I just crossed the Pacific and am I tired (??) ....... as you can see --- no one-size-fits-all.

Wing down/top rudder (WDTR)---that's usually my friend......until @ 50' AGL when I make the transition to landing flare----after touchdown put the aileron back in to keep the upwind wing from rising -- and it wants to -- lots of area out there. You also have to steer with the rudders/nosewheel steering-- that's obvious. In some limits X-wind conditions I could not really keep centerline with both working--I just tried to minimize the drift until the nosewheel steering was safe and the rudders were not effective. You also must be very judicious with your ailerons to not skag #1 or #4 engine pod on the ground---some have, to their eternal dismay.

Some guys--myself included--favor a slight, repeat: SLIGHT upwind lineup orientation if we are going to "crab" all the way down glideslope. Makes the workload a little less on approach. We are on the end of a long "moment arm" --- way out there in the B747 cockpit. If you visually put the cockpit on centerline in a crab---you will be offset on the downwind side when you take the crab out to line up in close.

Actually, a typical Whale high X-wind approach & landing might be:

1. Crab --- for much of the approach....
2. to "WDTR" in-close....
3. to "finesse" the CL and the flare....
4. to immediate wings level touchdown....
5. to immediate aileron into the wind & steer with rudder/NWS.... and judicious handfulls of REVERSE THRUST once the weight is on the wheels (but don't do it too much and compressor stall the engines!!)

6. .... to go to the hotel and have a Kirin or Sapporo and some gyoza....

Can't learn it in the books --- they don't really address it -- it's self-taught and mentored to a degree -- believe it. There's really no way you can "get a feel" for it until you "feel" the forces coming into play while trying to land 600,000# of screamin' machine. You come to the airline with everyone figuring you KNOW how to fly. The first time I got into the left seat on the big Boeing for my type rating ride the FAA guys just said: "Let's Go" ....

Remember: it may be big, but it's still just an airplane.

And then there was the 60 knot quartering X-wind coming into Agana for the first arrival in two days on the backside of Typhoon Paka with a plane load of vacation-hungry Jap-anese who really, really wanted that tropical vacation .... I lost a F/O on that approach ......

..... let's go to the swimming pool !!!

 

[Herc_Dude]

Still a cool video though. Even if the reporter doesn't know what he's talking about.

Totally agreed, thats why I thought it was worthy of a post.

 

[A4sForever]

Totally agreed, thats why I thought it was worthy of a post.

Ditto ... just 'splainin' the "reality" of the airline procedure(s) for our civilian flight instructor.

 

[wink]

No engine to scrape on the MD-80. Only thing at stake is the landing light. They extend from flush on the under side of the wing way out on the wing tip. Guys have torn them clean off. While the cost of repair is much less then an engine, the though of being about 4 inches from cartwheeling on a wing tip is frightening.

 

[A4sForever]

AND ... for the record ... I've been blown off centerline in the 747 just as hard as depicted in the video clip ... just a lot more wing and metal to manhandle back onto the departure course while keeping the blue side up ...

"They" said the winds were within limits --- although I still have my doubts ...

 

[White_Male]

Isn't it amazing how we can't really trust the media on any aviation stories and people generally assume they are correct in all the other stories they bring us?

On another note, I thought that it looked that he was crabbed while the mains were still on the runway, or is that just the slope getting in the way.

 

[A4sForever]

Isn't it amazing how we can't really trust the media on any aviation stories and people generally assume they are correct in all the other stories they bring us?...

My litmus test/reality check for anything I see or hear in the print or electronic media is this:

1. How many times have I had first hand knowledge about a "news story" or media "event" ??

2. In those cases, how many times has the reporter gotten it ... "right"???

The answer: Never. Not even once.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

That's wrong ... 747 for example ... lots of engines ... lots of ground. You'd better put in X-wind corrections or you're off the runway ... you use TECHNIQUE ... and skill and cunning in the Whale so as to not skag an engine on terra firma.

Not to mention his quote is all jacked up. The quote, in its correct form should be, "Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."

I don't know where the quote originated, but I've had it on a plaque in my room for about 15 years now. It's kind of hard to forget at this point.

 

[Tom]

Posh, that's nothing. Many commercial jets do not put much or any crosswind correction in at all. This is due to the fact that engines may strike the ground.

I understand some is required, but I was trying to say nothing to the amount of smaller planes. Great post on the 747.

Fun fact, did you know that some UAV's can't take off in more than 10 knots of wind?

 

[Herc_Dude]

My litmus test/reality check for anything I see or hear in the print or electronic media is this:

1. How many times have I had first hand knowledge about a "news story" or media "event" ??

2. In those cases, how many times has the reporter gotten it ... "right"???

The answer: Never. Not even once.

This is a little off the thread topic, but its dealing with what ^^^^ said. I had a buddy I played baseball with through high school who recently was killed in Iraq with the Army. Long story short, every story I read about him talked about how he was a "baseball star". He was a great player, but was no "star" (neither was I). He was just another guy on the team. It really changed the whole tone of the articles and it seemed like I wasn't reading about my friend at all. It opened my eyes to the fact that its so easy for these reporters to add seemingly unimportant details into these storys, yet they are reporting false information. Before you know it, all these little details can pile up and the reader is getting a story that is so far from reality. IMHO.

To a brother-in-arms and a friend, we always had a great time playin ball. Gonna miss ya buddy ...

 

[Tom]

Not to mention his quote is all jacked up. The quote, in its correct form should be, "Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect."

I don't know where the quote originated, but I've had it on a plaque in my room for about 15 years now. It's kind of hard to forget at this point.

I read it off a plaque too, but have read your version as well. I did not know which one was correct, but I will take your word for it and change my profile accordingly because I like that quote.