That's right, because the only ones that contribute to the fight drop ordnance, right?
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Combat Time . . . .
- Thread starter robav8r
- Start date
Drop what? Bombs? Intel? Electrons?
My crew did just as much to stop IED's flying LSRS missions over Iraq as the F/A guys dropping bombs on the targets they were provided by us.
VAQ doesn't drop near as much as F/A, but they sure do a lot with their pods to provide an airspace in which they can operate.
If my aircraft shit the bed and we ended up on the ground where we were flying in 2010 I would have been just as dead as you, regardless of what was emitting from my plane...
I'm proud of both of my Air Medals, as is everyone else on my crew that received them.
But please keep telling me how only the guys putting warheads on foreheads are fighting and risking their lives...
Says the guy not "pulling the trigger" himself.
You don't think a Growler EWO deserves a S/F air medal but you do? I guarantee that EWO has done more to shape the fight than you ever did from the back of an airplane, that was dropping bombs.
I really do think you have a problem. Your drunk posts aren't even amusing. You are just an ass.
Right so just to clarify, I contributed less picking up actual injured/killed from a point of injury out in the desert compared with the "fighter/bomber" who is burning circles at 30k did? Yeah, fuck you.
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LFCFan
*Insert nerd wings here*
According to instruction, intel doesn't rate the OIR medal. I'm mixed on who should get the real OEF/OIF/OIR campaign medals. The whole let's have-a-second-class-campaign-medal is a new thing since 9/11, which bugs me a bit since it doesn't have a historical precedent (I guess according to some all the folks afloat or at bases elsewhere in theater in Desert Storm and Vietnam who got the same medal as those in combat were just snowflakes getting their participation trophy!). The GWOT-E covers multiple, unrelated campaigns as well. But of course I get that no one was shooting at me and I didn't shoot at anyone, so yeah, I understand that I did less than someone who was in those situations, but I think that the line in the sand should have at least been drawn so that some more non-support folks (like the aforementioned Growler aircrew) get it. As others pointed out, it's ridiculous that an admin guy who happens to be in the borders of one of the countries we're fighting in gets it and someone with a load of EA/ISR missions doesn't.
Your comment about CAGs giving them out en masse explains one or two I've seen on folks that I know for a fact never went in country, now I know not to scream stolen valor at my fellow intel types
Concur with your fuck you. Do not concur with your burning circles at 30k.
You're kidding, right? Get real dude.
https://pilotonline.com/news/milita...cle_4e279d2a-17e2-5e4d-bdb8-5cf831ce546e.html
My point wasn't about the Tacair guys. Obviously they are doing a vital mission even if/when it's just CAP/ISR. All I was saying was there may be a time that they don't get to drop bombs and that their contribution still being better than life-saving MEDEVAC is bullshit.
And yes I KNOW they are rocking ISIS right now. But there was a cruise or two when they didn't drop anything. Again, that has nothing to do with my point. It was to illustrate the stupidity of saying that if you're not dropping bombs you're worthless.
I get your point, but you do sort of contradict yourself. On those cruises where tacair wasn't dropping, they were still providing crucial ISR and armed overwatch.
You can't say in one breath that the jets contribute without dropping, while implying the opposite in the next.
Again, not your original point which I agree with, but still worthy of pointing out.
Being in/over country is the only determinant for getting the campaign medal, not rating or designator.
There is in fact some precedence for campaign medals being so restrictive, just not very recent. There is also good reason with the campaign medal geographic criteria being broader for Vietnam and the Gulf War, where forces in the surrounding area were in the combat zone (within a threat ring for lack of a better term) while those outside Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan really aren't with the exception of aviators, which is why there is the exception for them.
Your comment about CAGs giving them out en masse explains one or two I've seen on folks that I know for a fact never went in country, now I know not to scream stolen valor at my fellow intel types
A CAG can't just decide to hand out medals if he/she is not authorized, it would be just like the SWO pins 'awarded' to aviators nowadays, largely meaningless and not official.
LFCFan
*Insert nerd wings here*
Right, I should have been more clear that I was talking about the award in the context of those who aren't in/over country, like on the carrier.
Just did some more wikipedia-ing, apparently there are 2x Vietnam medals. The first is for everybody involved, the other is specific to in-country (land or air) and 7th fleet. Interesting that 7th fleet was considered enough of a threat zone to justify it, but I stand corrected about the historical precedent (didn't know about the latter medal).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Campaign_Medal
As for Desert Storm, I guess most of the folks in theater were in a Scud WEZ or possibly dealing with some kind of maritime threat you don't have from ISIL (or whatever terrorist group was being fought at a given time in the last 15+ years.
I'll have to let someone smarter on rules/regs/admin speak to this, as I can't.
BTW I'm pretty sure that's me in the bubble shooting...
Only one of those is a US campaign medal, the Vietnam Campaign Medal is actually a RVN medal authorized for wear by US personnel while the Vietnam Service Medal is the US campaign medal.
And the criteria to get the US campaign medal was much more restrictive then just being in 7th Fleet, you had to have been in the specified areas and supporting ops in Vietnam. That has even recently been contentious since some folks are trying to get sailors killed in collision between the USS Frank E. Evans and HMAS Melbourne added to the Vietnam Memorial wall. One big distinction in Vietnam versus now was the sailors in the SCS were often directly supporting ops and in danger with ships periodically attacked, it was a much more active and dangerous combat zone for the folks at sea.
Like Vietnam the Gulf itself was a much more active combat zone with ships hitting mines, naval gunfire support and yes, Scuds striking the surrounding countries and probably even targeting ships in port.
Also like Vietnam there were several foreign medals that are authorized for wear by US personnel, specifically the Kuwait Liberation Medals from Saudi Arabia and from Kuwait. Like the RVN medal they were more restrictive than the US campaign medal, especially the Saudi one which only covered the dates of Operation Desert Storm and not until 1995 like the US Southwest Asia Service Medal.
I think a lot of people don't understand or believe what happens in medevac because they don't hear or read about it. Army medevac guys aren't just flying in a theoretical threat zone, they are actually being engaged by the enemy. USMC is probably the same.