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Carriers Heading Into The Wind: What Angle?

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
Thanks for the reply.

A possibility (which I think I alluded to in my post) would be to take the speed of the true wind and the speed of the wind that the carrier generates, then treat them as vectors. The number of degrees the carrier has to turn right from the wind's direction would be calculated so that the apparent direction of the wind is the parallel with the landing area's centerline.

High-school trig would give the solution. Is this close to how they do it?
Yes. OODs know how to do this. If there is no natural wind, "Winds are axial" (e.g., "Do some of that pilot shit."). If there is enough natural wind, ship's heading can create "wind down the angle", or some subset thereof...it still requires some of that pilot shit.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
A possibility (which I think I alluded to in my post) would be to take the speed of the true wind and the speed of the wind that the carrier generates, then treat them as vectors. The number of degrees the carrier has to turn right from the wind's direction would be calculated so that the apparent direction of the wind is the parallel with the landing area's centerline.

High-school trig would give the solution. Is this close to how they do it?

In ye olden days, the bridge (and Combat on small boys) would generate the solution (or were supposed to) by doing what you describe on what's called a MOBOARD. It's a polar plot to make the trig less mathy and more accessible to the watch team. Often when two people do the same calculation, they come up with a different answer (see above posts and see below). More modern ships now have a computer that does all of that for them, but not all ships have that capability.

Yes. OODs know how to do this.

No, many OODs do not know how to do this. Probably made worse by the system on the DDGs. As has been mentioned in previous posts, especially by the helo guys, the pilots can usually resolve a 90% solution faster by looking at the relative winds and the ship's gyro (if they know the ship's speed) than the bridge can incorrectly come up with a solution.

I think the biggest hurdle is getting confused with recipricals. As aviators, we're naturally self-centered, so we think of vectors as center out, where Shoes tend to mess up the idea that the true wind is a vector from and they end up getting the solution 180 out.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Identifying maritime traffic conflicts and suggesting a course of action to keep the ship safe while assisting in helo recovery is punishable by drumming-out.

Example:
Boat: “You have green deck.”
Aircrew: “Ok, thanks. Are we going to hit that tanker on your starboard bow in about 12 minutes?”
Boat: “Red deck.”

Let us not forget the inverse:

GREEN Deck with helo over the deck about to land.
Bridge: "RED DECK! We need to maneuver!"
LSO: "Okay, why?"
Bridge: "We have a contact that will be inside our CPA window in 10 minutes!"
LSO: "I can have the helo on deck in 30 seconds."

Wave off lights ensue.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
We operated once between some islands with zero flexibility on course. We had something like a 20 knot 90 degree undershooting x-wind. Made for a crazy abeam distance and scary looking approach on the PLAT.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
We operated once between some islands with zero flexibility on course. We had something like a 20 knot 90 degree undershooting x-wind. Made for a crazy abeam distance and scary looking approach on the PLAT.
Japan has a bunch of rocks in the Pacific that have territorial airspace around them, and you’re reminding me of the night Mom seemed hellbent on turning the Case III GCA pattern Hot Dog Red.
 

ea6bflyr

Working Class Bum
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Japan has a bunch of rocks in the Pacific that have territorial airspace around them, and you’re reminding me of the night Mom seemed hellbent on turning the Case III GCA pattern Hot Dog Red.
Had the same experience in the Gulf…HOT DOG RED for the Marshall Stack.
 

PhrogLoop

Adulting is hard
pilot
So the Navy uses Marshall amps for the PA system? ?
Ship’s band on the KEARSARGE had a Marshall stack for bass, Orange stack for lead guitar, Shure mics, and a ridiculous drum kit. Don’t ask me how I know. Or how we got MWR to pay for it ?
 

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
Did a downwind recovery once to stay ahead of the inbound fog in SoCal. 27 kts axial with a 10 kt tailwind. Do the math. Had to turn at the bow (vice LSO platform) or you were way long in the groove. Lots of fun.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Hot Dog Red? Don't recall that terminology from my day.
Hot Dog Yellow = you're close to someone else's territorial airspace without permission, and possibly getting a talking to by Skipper when you land.
Hot Dog Red = you're likely in someone else's territorial airspace without permission, and most probably getting a talking to by at least Skipper and maybe higher when you land, depending on the circumstances.
 
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