Career Reflections by Pickle

[Brett327]

I applaud Pickle, not only for asking for our collective opinion, but also to being open to a lot of the input given. We have to operate in the culture we have... not the one we used to have, or wish we had. Getting buy-in from those we lead for something that might be new (or uncomfortable) to them can be challenging, but as many have stated, clearly communicating your intentions and why you’re doing it can make or break how you’re being perceived. I’ve found that being approachable is one of the most important aspects of leading change. That builds trust, which appears lacking in this situation. This generation younger of Sailors places emphasis on knowing why they’re being asked to do things. In my experience, taking the time to talk about that also helps build trust. It’s a worthwhile investment.

 

[KTBQ]

But there are things that will undoubtedly suffer - your MOTs (which yes, you still have to do for SPSS to work properly, even with -53Gs)
Automatic mark on tops work just fine from 1500' and the "G" stands for GPS.

your buoy placement (wind effects the drops, even with 800' difference in altitude) 800' makes effectively no difference with the current capabilities in FR-46.

Safety? No, you are just as safe at 200' as you are at 1,000' with fully qualified pilots. Objectively false.

Just stirring the pot a little.

 

[Angry]

You can stir the pot as much as you want, you're still wrong. Go read the NATIP new guy.

 

[scoolbubba]

 

[rotorhead1871]

Okay, slightly long one here, trying to put some words/thoughts together for next Pilot Training.

BLUF: I think we are losing our way as Naval Aviators in the P-8, becoming over-reliant on automation and unwilling to fly our plane to the extents allowed in NATOPS, and it’s leading to decrease in our capabilities as a crew.

Was onsta recently and had a cloud deck from 2K down to (reported) around 600. Needed to drop buoys. Cleared the helo out of our box laterally and came down to 500’ after having crew don LPU’s.

Got to 500’, we were in and out of the scud, sea state was up a little so I didn’t feel comfortable punching buoys based on Radar alone. Told Redcrown we were going to 200’, confirmed the helo was out of our box, kicked off autopilot and descended to 200’.

Spit our BT and started getting a lot of chirping from behind the (curtain) door about “Why are we down here” which is a common refrain I hear now anytime I tell the crew to put on their vest and go below 1K’.

Got the word from Redcrown they were rolling Exercise right an hour and climbed back up above 2.5K and got out of the seat, rotated as usual.

The next day, after several tasty beverages, was approached by pilots who were concerned I hadn’t climbed back up above clouds to discuss going from 500’ to 200’ before I did it.

Needless to say, I was fucking shocked. I fully expect every pilot sitting next to me to be able to fly the jet throughout the envelope allowed in NATOPS, both speed and altitude, and expressed that to them.

Still not sure if it is a generational thing or a P-8 thing where everyone needs a full-fledged discussion before we change altitudes, but my feelings are still if I need the plane below the clouds to spot buoys, strap in and let’s go.

This further manifests in the unwillingness to learn/fly VFR as a community. In the P-3 (I hate that phrase) flying VFR around the mountains, down the Lake Chelan Gorge, or down the coast was/is not a big thing.

Now I get Anymice (because too many people are scared of conflict) or ASAPs after flying VFR to the straits and back to Fairchild so I can get a target deck on a CAVU day.

I think we are so risk averse as a community that it is decreasing our ability to fight the plane as it was designed.

My goal, every flight, is to challenge the pilots with me to stretch their boundaries, whether that’s hand flying, rigging at 200’, or going into a new field on no notice, as long as you have the NOTAMS and WX, and I try to make them better.

Unfortunately I feel like I’m making a name for myself as a “cowboy” in the plane because I’m not on an IFR clearance all day and take the chance to go below 1k’ whenever I can.

Thoughts/comments?
Pickle

its a new world......the whine and wusie factor take center stage now....its PC everything...get your moms permission to have 2 popsicles....they probably want to book a conference room and try to negotiate with the sub commanders.......good luck my man!!....dont let them burn you out..

 

[Brett327]

its a new world......the whine and wusie factor take center stage now....its PC everything...get your moms permission to have 2 popsicles....they probably want to book a conference room and try to negotiate with the sub commanders.......good luck my man!!....dont let them burn you out..

Nothing in your post is accurate, as usual. If I may be so bold, why don’t you just STFU when you have no idea what you’re talking about, old man. FFS.

 

[rotorhead1871]

Nothing in your post is accurate, as usual. If I may be so bold, why don’t you just STFU when you have no idea what you’re talking about, old man. FFS.

its pretty accurate.......you know it.

 

[HAL Pilot]

@rotorhead1871 Come on man! You’ve got to realize by now that it’s not accurate unless Brett says it’s accurate...

 

[Recovering LSO]

its pretty accurate.......you know it.

Nah bro. It’s not.

 

[Notanaviator]

its a new world......the whine and wusie factor take center stage now....its PC everything...get your moms permission to have 2 popsicles....they probably want to book a conference room and try to negotiate with the sub commanders.......good luck my man!!....dont let them burn you out..

Right past the realm of the constructive, teetering past the Thunderdome, about to tumble straight into an overdue “Yelling at Clouds to Get Off His Lawn” thread. There’s a rich legacy of leadership and genuine desire to be the best we can be that I’m grateful to learn from on here, and this doesn’t seem representative of that spirit.

 

[nittany03]

its pretty accurate.......you know it.

Let me get this straight . . . a retired old man is lecturing sitting Commanding Officers on what their Sailors are like and how they behave? That's rich. That's really rich.

Speaking as someone who works with these alleged crybaby kids on a regular basis . . . the Navy is going to do just fine, just like it always has. Bitter old men yelling at clouds are just background noise for the people actually getting the job done. So stop insulting my people.

 

[wink]

Great discussion. I have gained some new insight myself. But the glaring take away for me is the post pointing out the USAF was flying much lower than VP. When the AF is less risk averse than the Navy, we know things have changed dramatically.

 

[xj220]

I can go down to 200 ft day/night, that’s better than the P-3 than only during the day. I also don’t need to go that low all the time due to a better system and aircraft. I don’t get what the big deal is. Can we execute the mission? Are we getting the job done? Yes. Just make sure you can put the torp on top on time in the weapon envelope.

 

[zippy]

Back to the subject at hand.

Flying at 200ft is inherently more risky than flying at 1000ft. The Risk associated are mitigated by pilot training, CRM and technology etc. Moving from 500ft to 200ft shouldn’t require a climb to 1000ft to re-brief, however the total risk avoidance culture of the VPenis weaponizes safety both as a shield against criticism and as a spear for VP political operatives who view themselves as future Skippers to chuck at their peers.

“Criticism shall be used on an individual who takes more risk to identify them as unsafe in order to elevate one’s own status as most safe”- VP Community Survival Guide, USNA edition

@picklesuit, unfortunately, you ride horses- beasts more different from the norm and dangerous than motorcycles and post about recreational activity related injuries on social media. You are comfortable with taking risks, therefore you are the most dangerous O-4 of them all. You shall be awarded no community points and may Jay Beasley have mercy on your soul.

 

[robav8r]

Back to the subject at hand.

Flying at 200ft is inherently more risky than flying at 1000ft. The Risk associated are mitigated by pilot training, CRM and technology etc. Moving from 500ft to 200ft shouldn’t require a climb to 1000ft to re-brief, however the total risk avoidance culture of the VPenis weaponizes safety both as a shield against criticism and as a spear for VP political operatives who view themselves as future Skippers to chuck at their peers.

“Criticism shall be used on an individual who takes more risk to identify them as unsafe in order to elevate one’s own status as most safe”- VP Community Survival Guide, USNA edition

@picklesuit, unfortunately, you ride horses- beasts more different from the norm and dangerous than motorcycles and post about recreational activity related injuries on social media. You are comfortable with taking risks, therefore you are the most dangerous O-4 of them all. You shall be awarded no community points and may Jay Beasley have mercy on your soul.

Quote of the month right here folks, nice ?