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C vs. E/F

Recidivist

Registered User
Growler is no good. It just sounds like a gnarly dump, whereas shocker signifies stealth and cunning, the shot up the back that they never saw coming.


But this is about E/F, not G.
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Alot of this seems to have been about the merits of a one seat vs. two seat platform... So, I think back to the original question, if you had to choose between C or E, (thus taking out the variable of whether or not you prefer an NFO) what would it be?
 

xmid

Registered User
pilot
Contributor
Better be careful asking people if they prefer not having an NFO on board, Schnugg might lock you out of the house...;)
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Better be careful asking people if they prefer not having an NFO on board, Schnugg might lock you out of the house...;)

No no, not what I was asking, though I note your sarcasm. I'm just saying alot of this became a "I want an NFO" or "I don't want an NFO" discussion when it seemed to me the original intent of the post was "would you choose a hornet or a rhino," based on the merits of the aircraft as opposed to those flying it.
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
No no, not what I was asking, though I note your sarcasm. I'm just saying alot of this became a "I want an NFO" or "I don't want an NFO" discussion when it seemed to me the original intent of the post was "would you choose a hornet or a rhino," based on the merits of the aircraft as opposed to those flying it.
let me reiterate what i said on the first page ... why anybody would want to select a 15-20 year old airframe that isn't being built anymore and is always breaking and rarely FMC over one that is less than 5 years old and has all the fancy avionics built into each one of them vice being tossed randomly "after market" into a few here and there is beyond me.

it shouldn't take a genius to figure out that flying brand new aircraft that is superior in avionics and almost as capable performance wise is the way to go. after listening to Super Hornet bros who are flying 8 pit 8 turn 8 (or better) and finishing the day FMC while we are suffering barely flying a 6 plane schedule for months on end, lucky to get a 4 pit 4 turn 2 leaving a spare or two that are PMC, knowing that if you are on the schedule for the last go of the day you might as well not brief 'cause you know you ain't going, flying in piecemealed jets fighting over who gets the only up MIDS jet ‘cause only a handful of your jets got the upgrade and the other 4 are hard down awaiting parts or at NADEP getting a centerbarrel replacement, or that your NITEHAWK pod might work but it doesn't matter 'cause it's practically useless (amongst some other avi stuff but we won’t touch that in the NIPR AW forums) and is nothing more than drag & extra weight.

between the Hornet & SH, it would be an easy choice, if I had the choice ...

S/F
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
let me reiterate what i said on the first page ... why anybody would want to select a 15-20 year old airframe that isn't being built anymore and is always breaking and rarely FMC over one that is less than 5 years old and has all the fancy avionics built into each one of them vice being tossed randomly "after market" into a few here and there is beyond me.

it shouldn't take a genius to figure out that flying brand new aircraft that is superior in avionics and almost as capable performance wise is the way to go. after listening to Super Hornet bros who are flying 8 pit 8 turn 8 (or better) and finishing the day FMC while we are suffering barely flying a 6 plane schedule for months on end, lucky to get a 4 pit 4 turn 2 leaving a spare or two that are PMC, knowing that if you are on the schedule for the last go of the day you might as well not brief 'cause you know you ain't going, flying in piecemealed jets fighting over who gets the only up MIDS jet ‘cause only a handful of your jets got the upgrade and the other 4 are hard down awaiting parts or at NADEP getting a centerbarrel replacement, or that your NITEHAWK pod might work but it doesn't matter 'cause it's practically useless (amongst some other avi stuff but we won’t touch that in the NIPR AW forums) and is nothing more than drag & extra weight.

between the Hornet & SH, it would be an easy choice, if I had the choice ...

S/F

Just out of curiosity...how much does that differ when considering USMC Hornet vs Navy Hornet?
 

DanMa1156

Is it baseball season yet?
pilot
Contributor
Just out of curiosity...how much does that differ when considering USMC Hornet vs Navy Hornet?

Umm... you'd be in the Marines...:confused:
It's not like Marine pilots are like "oh, gimme that Navy hornet, this USMC one sucks" or vice versa...
 

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
Umm... you'd be in the Marines...:confused:
It's not like Marine pilots are like "oh, gimme that Navy hornet, this USMC one sucks" or vice versa...

He's asking if Navy Charlies have the same maintenance issues as Marine Corps Hornets.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
He's asking if Navy Charlies have the same maintenance issues as Marine Corps Hornets.

Bingo.

That and all the stuff about having to retrofit new avionics into the Charlies...seems like the Navy would be more willing to pay up for that kind of thing.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I think the Marines actually have the newest C models.

I flew with some of the VMFA(AW) types out in Iwakuni and Guam and their D's were beat up a bit. One of their birds was already G limited to 5G's because of the wing box (I believe that was the reason?) issues. Mor erestrictions were rumored to be on the way.......we Prowler guys just laughed at them and welcomed them to the club........:D
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Rhino.

The legacy Hornet, while a proven work-horse, is old, broken, and showing its age. Ask any Hornet driver, I have yet have one say anything different. Sure, it gets upgraded here and there, but it is not setup for the systems that the Rhino will see in the coming years. That's the thing, the Rhino has not yet seen its full potential, as many of the systems it was designed for have still yet to become fully operational. These are systems the Hornet can't support. The Navy is still pumping money into the Rhino program and new ones are being made as we speak. Sure, the Rhino is "slower" on the top-end, but give me a break, when do you expect to fly a slick jet into combat? Bombs loaded, fuel loaded, that Mach 1.6 vs Mach 1.5 isn't going to happen anyway. The Rhino will certainly out-accelerate a Hornet below 0.9M, I've done it and seen it. Some will say the Hornet is a SLIGHTLY better BFM fighter. That might be true, I don't know, I've never flown it (not that I'm any good at BFM anyway). Then again, that comes down to the pilot.

Strike warfare is the name of the game. The Rhino has two extra weapon stations than the Hornet and carries a BUTTLOAD more fuel. Every Hornet friend I've talked to is amazed at how much we can carry AND trap with. The bring-back of the Rhino vs the Hornet is staggering. I had a tough time getting aboard one night, took me three passes... still wasn't bingo and was BARELY tank.

I'm biased, I've never flown a Charlie, I only know from what my past instructors have told me. Take it for what it's worth.

As for single-seat vs two-seat. Well, I came into the RAG wanting single-seat, no questions asked. I was tired of flying with another person, I wanted to do it all myself. Hell, that's how I'd been trained from day 1 of Primary. Then I saw the complexity of the stuff we do, and after a couple Crew Coordinated flights in the syllabus, I was SOLD on the F model. Doing a night self-escort strike, large force exercise, on goggles, self lasing LGBs, and running intercepts on the ingress and egress, not to mention surface-to-air threats... fvck that, I want someone to help take the load off me and help out. I know I can do it myself, that doesn't mean I want to. I've had WSOs make their worth in gold a few times already, and I'm super junior. Believe me, it's a great asset when the WSO is "patting your head" during a rough night behind the boat. Again, strike warfare is the name of the game. From what I've seen and experienced, the two-seat squadrons are hands down better at weapons employment than the single-seaters. It's only logical... the pilot can fly the jet while the WSO can operate the systems and setup the delivery.

Again, I'm biased. Take it for what it's worth.
 
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