Bronze Stars for PAOs and other tales of award inflation

[lmnop]

The Bronze Star (sans V device) is the equivilant of the MSM, the only difference is where the person was when they performed this outstanding service, we would not even be talking about this if it was an MSM.

The criteria for a V is hardly uniform either. I know that there has been talk about making the Navy align more with the other services for the awarding of the device, but there's a WIDE range in perception between the services for what merits it.

The awards system sucks, and has for a long time. I'm sure the inequities I've seen are not unique. It boils my blood when I have to fight tooth and nail to justify a CAR for a guy who spent the last year taking care of IEDs, but a fobbit that hears one go off while convoying from the shire to the green zone has the award sail right through.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

So does this mean that Marines should stop complaining about the entire crew of the USS Kearsage being awarded the combat action ribbon?

 

[Harrier Dude]

So does this mean that Marines should stop complaining about the entire crew of the USS Kearsage being awarded the combat action ribbon?

When the hell did that happen?

Not that it surprises me much, having floated on that POS.....

 

[lmnop]

So does this mean that Marines should stop complaining about the entire crew of the USS Kearsage being awarded the combat action ribbon?

Complain away. Still pisses me off.

 

[SemperGumbi]

The Marines have always been stingy with awards. I don't really care (i.e. this isn't a bitter post) because the people who judge you on your chest (pun intended) usually don't sit in a position to affect you professionally.

However....

I will say that the AF always had much more chest candy than the other branches. I would reoutinely see junior Captains who were never in a combat zone with 3+ rows. Even that rare 1LT (AF style....I felt dirty even writing it that way) with a huge stack. No, they weren't prior. One time I asked. "I got this for finishing MOS school, this was form a billet I stood in on for a month....)

I was amused, even though I was a civilian and didn't really "get it." I knew something was fishy that a guy who looked my age had more "awards" than the 0-6 I was with earlier that day who just came out of a tour as a Guided Missile Cruiser Captain in support of OIF. Hmmmm....

 

[docpup]

The Marines have always been stingy with awards. I don't really care (i.e. this isn't a bitter post) because the people who judge you on your chest (pun intended) usually don't sit in a position to affect you professionally.

I believe "stingy" to be a simplification. From what I've seen, the USMC gives awards based on performance, the Army based on doctrine, the USAF for showing up, and the Navy has a rotational logic system I have yet to figure out.

For instance, I got an Army COM for doing my job...as a matter of fact, every flight crew member got an ACOM and all maintainers got AAM for fling "Dustoff" out of Kuwait for 8 months. That was the standard, that's what we got. But also, each crew member that flew disaster relief for the tsunami in Sumatra got a COM.

On the other end of the spectrum, a HM buddy of mine had a Bronze Star downgraded to a COM with "V" after saving his Marines post IED ambush because he was an E-4 at the time.

I don't care that much about awards and get irritated by "Chest Candy Chasers". Two core beliefs I have are that if a similarly trained person placed in a similar situation would have done the same things...it's procedure not performance and the harder you chase glory or awards, the more they will allude you....

 

[HueyCobra8151]

I believe the Army/Air Force factor awards into the promotion system, so there is a catch-22 where if they aren't given these "check in the box" awards, the command is screwing them out of promotions.

 

[lmnop]

I believe the Army/Air Force factor awards into the promotion system, so there is a catch-22 where if they aren't given these "check in the box" awards, the command is screwing them out of promotions.

Ditto for Navy enlisted advancement up to E-6. Granted, it isn't a huge number of points, but with as tight as some ratings are these days an award can be make or break for advancement.

 

[mb1k]

The Marines have always been stingy with awards. I don't really care (i.e. this isn't a bitter post) because the people who judge you on your chest (pun intended) usually don't sit in a position to affect you professionally.

Well, I am bitter and I'm an Air Force guy. I got my MSM downgraded to an AF Com as a field grader. I was new to the AF and didn't think anything about it, I was 3 tours in OEF and OIF and thought the MSM was for that and all I did. Not because it was the standard end-of-tour award for all AF FGOs.

I found out later, that it was downgraded during a "crack down" because another FGO before me was awarded an MSM for being nothing more than a gedunk (snack fund) officer before retiring at 20 YRS. So for awhile those of us leaving that wing got downgraded. When I showed up at my subsequent command the CO right out asked it I got a DUI or screwed up to get "only" a Com?!? When everyone is judged by a standard that fluctuates... I get screwed. AF senior leaders will forever look at my record and wonder "what he" did during that tour.

The awards & decs officer even had to water my citation down to make it "comm" material instead of MSM. FWIW, a Navy O-6 read the citation when writing my OPR and asked why it wasn't an MSM!?! Go figure, when a Navy guy thinks the citation warrants an MSM and I didn't get one....

 

[Nose]

USAF is awarding Air Medals to UAV pilots who live and work at Nellis but "fly" in other parts of the world (still from Nellis).

In my first squadron, our CMC was retiring after 35+ years of service. CO put him in for an MSM - the guy was completely shit-hot and deserved it. Got downgraded to a NCM (oops NMCCM) somewhere in the chop chain. The day we got the news that it was downgraded, we were on det to a USAF base. I was scheduled to fly with the XO and we walked over to base ops to get the WX brief. The USAF E-5 behind the counter had 2 MSMs.

My question is, if they give stuff like that to weather guessers, what the hell do they give to guys like Huggy and others who actually, you know, do real stuff?

 

[loadtoad]

My question is, if they give stuff like that to weather guessers, what the hell do they give to guys like Huggy and others who actually, you know, do real stuff?

Nothing...


At least in my experience it seemed in the AF the people that didn't do anything were the ones getting the most awards. You walk into any AF PSD and you will see E-6s and E-7s with 7 rows of ribbons... and have never been deployed

 

[Scoob]

My question is, if they give stuff like that to weather guessers, what the hell do they give to guys like Huggy and others who actually, you know, do real stuff?

Apparently you've never seen the AFRTS commercial that clues you in to the fact that these guys are part of AF Special Forces, and that without accurate wx at the front line - shit just DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

[MasterBates]

And to think I though the COM I got for Katrina was tad overkill!

 

[squeeze]

Apparently you've never seen the AFRTS commercial that clues you in to the fact that these guys are part of AF Special Forces, and that without accurate wx at the front line - shit just DOESN'T HAPPEN.

Not the actual AFN commercial, but within the first 20 seconds has the best scene of the commercial.

 

[mb1k]

Not the actual AFN commercial, but within the first 20 seconds has the best scene of the commercial.

I like the international red colored-not-marking-my-position-to-OPFOR ballon... niiiiiice.