Blackwater guys on the rooftop in Najaf

[A4sForever]

......He also said that you're pretty much expendable in the company's eyes. ........

Sure .... it ain't pretty, but you are always a "piece of meat" to whomever you work for when going in Harm's Way ... the only difference between Blackwater and "UNCLE" is that Blackwater is relatively upfront about it. They are "real" about the $$$$$ . "UNCLE" isn't . That's the way it works ... if you think it otherwise ... do a reality check.

 

[Ryoukai]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of equipment do the Blackwater guys employ? I would think it odd for them to be given the same sort of gear that the official Army guys are given, but then aren't they being asked to do some of the same tasks?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of equipment do the Blackwater guys employ? I would think it odd for them to be given the same sort of gear that the official Army guys are given, but then aren't they being asked to do some of the same tasks?

If you look at The New York Times Magazine from two weeks ago, there is a great article about PSD contractors in Iraq - Blackwater being one; the subject of the story was a company called "Triple Canopy".

Anyways, believe it or not, some of the toughest issues are the Iraqi import laws! Seems as though getting weapons into Iraq legally is a huge bearucratic mess. It's a piece of cake for the insurgents to smuggle weapons in from Macedonia, for instance, and Syria. But legally getting a Glock pistol or M-4 rifle into the country as a civillian contractor is apparently a huge pain in the ass.

SO a lot of contractors make do with what they can buy on the legal open market - AK's abound from what the article said.

Just FYI - a number of commercial helicopter operators are bidding on transportation contracts (non tactical) - in and out of the Green Zone to the airport, etc. Most of the major US vendors (PHI, Omniflight, etc) are in the mix and they will need pilots. If you are a reserve helo guy or thinking about leaving active duty, this could be the chance to make some serious cash and enjoy some adventure while you are at it!

 

[Steve Wilkins]

They are not the member of an organized and uniformed army of a sovereign nation.

Didn't you say in a previous thread (about the 2nd Amendment I believe) that we were all members of the militia. They may not be members of the armed services under DoD, but they sure as hell are organized.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

As for these mercs, it may be new thing for us because of Iraq, but these types of guys have been working all around the world (in particular, Africa) for some time now....long before Iraq was even an issue.

 

[Flash]

Concur. Mercenaries have been used in the US dating back to the Revolutionary War. I don't understand why people always seem to freak out about them.

Brett

Sure, there have been mercenaries around a long time, but it is a little different in this war. How? Because companies like Blackwater and DynCorp are doing jobs that were previously the purview of military forces. If you look far enough back into history you will find much more prevelant use of mercenaries, but they always have caused a lot of problems. The term for the military unit Company came from the Thirty Years War in the 1600's, when mercenary companies employed by the powers that be wreaked havoc on Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_years_war . After the end of that war nation-states started raising there own standing armies in part to prevent the problems that the mercenary companies caused. This transition was not completed in in large part until the Napoleonic wars. (Hey, that Citadel history education actually paid off...in a debate on AW :icon_smil )

So what are the problems with the current mercenaries? The rules governing their role in combat are not fully defined (ie. Geneva convention), they are actually very poorly defined, even the government has said so. They do not fall under a clear chain of command, which can cause serious problems if hte bullets start flying. The guys who were killed in Fallujah supposedly ignored the advice of the Marines stationed there and drove through a bad section of the city. What about the risk that the Marines and soldiers would take to rescue those who ignored them? Who would be responsible for the cost in equipment and lives? Also, what happens when a contractor breaks the law, like murder? That is not all too clear either. I believe US Army rules also prohibit private contractors from conducting interrogations, and yet they did. There was even an incident recently where Marines accused contractors of firing at them. Their punishment, they got kicked out of Iraq. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/08/iraq.main/

Finally, the main purpose of a business is to make money. Blackwater, DynCorp, Titan and all of the other defense contractors doing secrity workare in business to make money. While contractors do valuable work, everything from serving food to delivering mail, should the basic security work be left to businesses and individuals motivated by money? I don't think so.

 

[Fly Navy]

Didn't you say in a previous thread (about the 2nd Amendment I believe) that we were all members of the militia. They may not be members of the armed services under DoD, but they sure as hell are organized.

Yes, by law every able bodied male of (can't remember the ages) is a member of the unorganized militia in the United States. I think the date of the law is 1785... but don't quote me on that. That being said... that's probably not going to hold up against an enemy if they were to invade and win. Come on Steve, you know better than to word-fvck...

 

[Fly Navy]

As for these mercs, it may be new thing for us because of Iraq, but these types of guys have been working all around the world (in particular, Africa) for some time now....long before Iraq was even an issue.

He's right... and in some instances they've done things military forces couldn't hope to do, especially in Africa. Then again, we aren't talking about first-rate militaries either.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Come on Steve, you know better than to word-fvck...

Ahh, but it's one of the few things I do well.

 

[Fly Navy]

Ahh, but it's one of the few things I do well.

Haha, this is true. :icon_smil

 

[kmac]

What is the problem with being motivated by money? That's how our capitalistic nature succeeds. If private companies have to compete to earn contracts, then who is to say that they are not trying to do the best job possible? Do these merc companies not have to perform, and perform well, to turn a profit against competition?

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Do these merc companies not have to perform, and perform well, to turn a profit against competition?

Haha, that's funny. Since when do government contractors actually have to perform....or at least, peform well?

 

[mkoch]

Haha, that's funny. Since when do government contractors actually have to perform....or at least, peform well?

Ever since it's them getting shot at and not the civil servants that they're supplying.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Ever since it's them getting shot at and not the civil servants that they're supplying.

That's just a function of self-preservation.

 

[Wedge]

Corporations serve for the good of their corporation not the good of the country. The military exists to serve the better good of this country regardless of the cost. These mercs are a bastardization of a professional military. Corporations should not be allowed to have this kind of authority. IMHO, only people who take an oath to defend this country should be in combat in Iraq. Oh, and I took a pay cut to join the military so I don't want to hear the argument that we are all here for the money because the money is not very good. Some people really want to defend mercs because they hire ex military or because they have friends on the payroll but that still does not legitimize corporate mercenaries.