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BINGO profile...

It's simply for pilot workload. In a bingo profile you don't have to think. There aren't any difficult charts to pull out and graphs to stare at. The reason for the idle descent is just that. In a max range profile you would be climbing/descending in steps. Not so with the bingo. Get up there fast, stay there, and then come down, just like kcmac12 indicated.

Now who can tell me why a C-2 may bingo after only 1 bolter, and yet prior to that have enough fuel to stay airborne for hours??? (Note to old guys, this isn't a tough question, nor is it intended for you)
 
kmac said:
It's simply for pilot workload. In a bingo profile you don't have to think. There aren't any difficult charts to pull out and graphs to stare at. The reason for the idle descent is just that. In a max range profile you would be climbing/descending in steps. Not so with the bingo. Get up there fast, stay there, and then come down, just like kcmac12 indicated.

Now who can tell me why a C-2 may bingo after only 1 bolter, and yet prior to that have enough fuel to stay airborne for hours??? (Note to old guys, this isn't a tough question, nor is it intended for you)
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Rule of 11... (10.5 now) :D




I know the questions wasn't for me, but let's see if anyone can figure out what that Rule is...
 
From the Phrog community perspective:

Bingo = Emergency. It's the amount of gas you need straight-line to a pre-planned airfield or the nearest airfield. There is no "profile" for us, because our gear is fixed, and we pretty much burn the same amount per engine regardless of speed or altitude.

Joker = SA builder or knock it off. Can be both, for example you plan on hearing Joker from your flight at CP B, but instead hear it at CP A - time to consider knocking it off. If you hear it at CP B, you can continue with your mission as planned. Joker can cause you to have to kick it up a notch speed wise (since our fuel burn is consistent no matter what).

Min Fuel = Not really pre-defined as an amount, but pretty much allows you to land with reserve. I've used it once. Conversation went like this:

Me: "Yuma Tower, Dagger 11 Pilot's knob inbound for runway 8"
YT: "Report the sand pits (reporting point for runway 26)"
Me: "Negative, unable - request RW 8"
YT: "Dagger 11, be advised winds are 270 at 10 - report the sandpits"
Me: "Yuma Tower, be advised I am MIN FUEL and will take the tailwind for RW 8, unless you want me to drop the big E" (that's exactly what I said)
YT: "Dagger 11 report final RW 8"

Emergency Fuel = I'm going to be landing with 200lbs/side (our minimum).

For the record - I've never used the "E" word. My co-pilot did once, and I quickly corrected it with tower (we had to land and re-arm our buckets because one didn't arm. He said we had an "electrical emergency." That was a LONG debrief for him). Two times that I could have used it: I flew into icing, and when I told them - Memphis approach gave us priority handling so no need. Lost an engine, and was so assholes and elbows in the cockpit that my dash-2 called it for me.
 
Since Phrog has the popped the cherry, time to jack up a jet thread w/ helo stuff...

For SAR, BINGO doesn't necessarily mean emergency, nor does it mean one thing. You can have multiple BINGO numbers, depending on where you can go. You can have a BINGO for the boat, a BINGO for the runway at the beach, and a BINGO for the beach itself. Depending on the situation, if I can save an extra life but have to land on a beach w/ everyone safe and wait for the cavalry to arrive, that's fine by me. Not optimal, but it's an option.
 
I have to echo gatordev on Bingo for the SAR side of things. On the CSAR side of things it is more like what the stiff wingers have been saying.
 
gatordev said:
You can have multiple BINGO numbers, depending on where you can go.
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Same with us. Being a fixed wing guy, I have a lot less options for landing than my rotor-brethren, but in addition to the "normal" mission Bingo (getting back to the home-drome), we'll brief SARCAP Bingo's: should someone eject, the wingman will orbit overhead until no less than that number, and then land at a much closer airport. Also, being a single-runway location, we'll discuss divert Bingo's, should someone crump the runway.
In the communities I've flown in, these Bingo's all get us back with "normal recovery fuel", which is slightly above "min fuel".
 
FLYTPAY said:
Can't tank, yet had to adjust gross weight prior to landing.
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Correct sir! Now having to explain that to the many bubbas on the boat that are going ape shit because the COD just departed declaring Bingo... that's priceless. If we didn't have cargo, we could keep on flying. But when you throw cargo in the back, the amount of fuel you can land with decreases.

Hoover(COD)Pilot- Why is it 10.5 for you guys? We still use rule of 11. Are your empty weights 38.5K now?
 
kmac said:
It's fun to ask the copilot if they would shut down a good engine just to save fuel. ;)
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We can shut down two good engines :D

Figured you were adjusting gross weight for landings. Is that limitation based on the arresting gear, or airframe? Is there an overweight landing option at the boat?

If I was in the EP3 community, we could just pick a random foreign country to land in and ignore BINGO. I keed...
 
I've heard of P-3 bubbas shutting down engines. It's not so fun if you've only got 2 and have to shut down 1. If you really nickel and dime it, trying to figure out which engine is more efficient... well, you've probably gone below bingo and are trying to make up for poor judgement/SA.

I should know it, but I am not sure about the limitation. It is definitely an aircraft limitation though. My guess is for the airframe (structural loading) as opposed to the landing gear. Our normal field landing weight is 52,323 with a max trap of 49,000lbs. That's why my guess is for the airframe. (Not to be confused with service life limits that are related to landings and traps)

Is there an overweight landing option at the boat? No, and you can ask Bunk about his experience with the fuel dump not working. In short, he took his own waveoff after repeatedly telling tower that he needed to adjust his gross weight.
 
The "WILL YOU SHUT DOWN A GOOD ENGINE" was a common HAC scenario debate/question in HSL when I was there.

My take- if you THINK you need to, you better do it early. Dual engine climb to about 4-5K and shut down the engine with the lower ETF (likely the less efficient one)

Also be sure to shut down ECS, anti-ice and any other hogs of bleed air.
 
kmac said:
Hoover(COD)Pilot- Why is it 10.5 for you guys? We still use rule of 11. Are your empty weights 38.5K now?
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KMAC - Most of our AC are more 38.5 than 38. It was the TCAS/TAWS mod that pushed it to that. I use 38.5 as my personal rule and use that example when I am teaching the rule. Do you guys run into the rule of 11 often? I've only really seen it when doing the long OEF hits out of OBBI and I don't feel like using a dirt runway in Pakistan as a divert w/DV's. Next closest runway is 250nm away.
 
MasterBates said:
The "WILL YOU SHUT DOWN A GOOD ENGINE" was a common HAC scenario debate/question in HSL when I was there.

My take- if you THINK you need to, you better do it early. Dual engine climb to about 4-5K and shut down the engine with the lower ETF (likely the less efficient one)

Also be sure to shut down ECS, anti-ice and any other hogs of bleed air.
Click to expand...
It turns out I shut down a perfectly good engine once. It spun up (Nf flex shaft failure), I pulled it out of governing range and it was fine. My rationale for shutting it down? Didn't see how long/how hot/how fast the engine had gotten and was now concerned about the Warning that talks about catastrophic shedding of the power turbine blades...

It's also a very common question on HAC Boards for us...
 
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