Best and worst experiences with flight instructors

[AirPirate]

I know what you're saying here, but it can be used positively, too.

I understand. I meant it more in the negative sense when an instructor is making generalizations about you rather than your flying. Of course generalizing across a trend can help to figure it out and break it, but I was talking to the instructors that generalize about your personality, attitude, language, or some other quality that is specific to you (not just that you're always low at the 90). Even if it's true, "you're one of those guys who always makes excuses," "thinks he knows everything," "always fill-in-the-blank," or some other random insult, it's the beginning of the end for any relationship inside the cockpit or out.

 

[Python]

I think I know who you are talking about. Only one instructor comes to mind with the sudden snatching of controls. I remember a FORM flight where I was fighting the stick and throttle the whole time on a join up... On one, I literally just rode the controls and watched the plane join up. His comment? "Good join on that one!" Right.

My biggest pet peeve is the Tech-cedure. Things that are technique, but are preached by some instructors as the only way to do something. Most memorable was how to land the T-34. I remember with one guy It HAD to be Power. Level. Idle. Flare., as four separate movements, or it was an instant below MIF. Although I haven't seen it as much in Advanced.

It's not one IP in particular. I've had multiple IPs do unannounced control changes and be on them for many of the meaneuvers

 

[Uncle Fester]

I had a couple of amazing instructors, in the good and bad sense of the word.

Bad one started off my FAM-1 T-34 brief by telling me, "I've got six months left in the Navy, and I'm not going to let you kill me." Things only went downhill from there, and the debrief ended with, "If this had been your check ride, I would have downed you." Well...no shit, dude, it's a farking FAM-1. As in, Ensign Fester has never, ever flown a plane in his life before today.

Good one started a brief with, "I'm going to teach you how to be a guy I'd want to fly with. The government is paying us to go fuck around in an airplane for two hours, so we're going to have fun, dammit. What's been giving you trouble so far, and what do you feel like you've got a handle on?"

I never understood the IP's who seemed determined to scare/intimidate the student. As mentioned, those guys are bullies. It's a shitty way to teach, and it's shitty just from a CRM standpoint. A scared kid isn't going to learn anything - so you, the instructor, have failed at your job - and he's also not going to say anything when something's wrong.

Good instructors figured out what you were having difficulty with, and worked with you until the problem was identified and fixed, whatever and however long it took (yes, within reason and assuming the problem wasn't just the stud didn't bother studying his procedures). Shitty instructors either defaulted to a position of "you suck, and I'm going to identify how it's your fault that you suck," or were just too lazy to instruct and went with a 'sit back and grade' attitude.

I was always amazed how few instructors understood that they were fundamentally teachers, not evaluators.

 

[AirPirate]

I was always amazed how few instructors understood that they were fundamentally teachers, not evaluators.

This is a key point! The "evaluators" might argue that the teachers are too touchy-feely. The "teachers" might argue that the evaluators simply absolve themselves of responsibility when someone fails. Since our system relies on the individual to rise to the occasion, the evaluator culture prevails.

 

[beaverslayer]

I was always amazed how few instructors understood that they were fundamentally teachers, not evaluators.

I'm only a little ways into primary, but this is already bothering me. I've had one COC flight and it was like a breath of fresh air, because my flight leader focused on teaching me new techniques for things that I was struggling with. My on-wing has yet to say anything positive about anything, whether in flight or in the debrief. I mean, I know my flying needs a lot of criticism, but he treats every flight like it's a checkride. My gradesheets are typically three pages long and they list every minute detail of things I f-ed up, but the things that I know I did well don't ever get mentioned.

 

[BusyBee604]

My gradesheets are typically three pages long and they list every minute detail of things I f-ed up, but the things that I know I did well don't ever get mentioned.

I would (very tactfully) mention this ambiguity with him, as he may not realize he is doing this. At the very least, if there's a problem that rears it's ugly head down the road, he won't be able to say he was unaware of your perception of his debrief/grading style.
Now go forth and "slay those Beavers"!
BzB

 

[Jim123]

My gradesheets are typically three pages long and they list every minute detail of things I f-ed up, but the things that I know I did well don't ever get mentioned.

Not just for you but for all students who get this kind of thing from time to time- yes it's disheartening to only get negative reinforcement, but try not to let that get you down. Keep on doing your best working on all of those minute details, and if three pages of them are too big for one bite then do your best to bite off as many as you can. That much documentation might be like a kick in the junk but on the other hand a verbal debrief (that happened while you were still frazzled from flying) usually turns into a blurry memory. You could try using the gradesheets as a study aid and for your chair-flying... it might or might not help.

Fester said something about "how to be a guy I'd want to fly with." Motivated, hard workers are people with whom anyone wearing wings wants to fly and instructors do take notice of those character traits.

 

[beaverslayer]

I would (very tactfully) mention this ambiguity with him, as he may not realize he is doing this. At the very least, if there's a problem that rears it's ugly head down the road, he won't be able to say he was unaware of your perception of his debrief/grading style.

You could try using the gradesheets as a study aid and for your chair-flying... it might or might not help.

These are good ideas--I'll definitely try both. Thanks for the help gentlemen.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I was always amazed how few instructors understood that they were fundamentally teachers, not evaluators.

This is a key point! The "evaluators" might argue that the teachers are too touchy-feely. The "teachers" might argue that the evaluators simply absolve themselves of responsibility when someone fails. Since our system relies on the individual to rise to the occasion, the evaluator culture prevails.

The BEST instructor I ever had was my onwing in T-34s. I invited him to my softpatch/winging, and we keep in touch to this day. He was not only that good of an instructor, but he was a great guy. He started FAM-1 with the statement "It's your job to study procedures and limits, it's my job to teach you how to fly. As long as you do your job, I'm going to keep doing my job."

 

[Gatordev]

I was always amazed how few instructors understood that they were fundamentally teachers, not evaluators.

I didn't really run into this in flight school, both as a stud or as an IP, but it seems to be an issue at the RAG level on the east coast. A buddy of mine who works with me but is also a CSI has even commented on it. If you're doing Lvl 100 stuff, there should be very little evaluating going on. It isn't a level check each flight. I've filed it away with all the other LAMPS RAG-isms that annoy me.

The BEST instructor I ever had was my onwing in T-34s. I invited him to my softpatch/winging, and we keep in touch to this day. He was not only that good of an instructor, but he was a great guy. He started FAM-1 with the statement "It's your job to study procedures and limits, it's my job to teach you how to fly. As long as you do your job, I'm going to keep doing my job."

I may have heard that same statement as a stud, perhaps by the same person, I'm not sure, but I always tried to take that message to a stud on a FAM 0 and hopefully carried on with it when instructing.

My on-wing has yet to say anything positive about anything, whether in flight or in the debrief. I mean, I know my flying needs a lot of criticism, but he treats every flight like it's a checkride.

Obviously we don't know anything about you as a stud, but that said, right or wrong, not every IP is a good one. Sad but true. My buddy had an onwing that had sailed through the program in Primary. My buddy couldn't complete him on the road, so he left him with a VNAV O/I. Easy for the stud, easy for the IP. When they walked out to airplane, the IP opened the cowling and said it was time to tell him about parts of the engine...on a VNAV...right before selection. So yeah, they're out there.

 

[armada1651]

That much documentation might be like a kick in the junk but on the other hand a verbal debrief (that happened while you were still frazzled from flying) usually turns into a blurry memory. You could try using the gradesheets as a study aid and for your chair-flying... it might or might not help.

Personally, I prefer to take notes during the debrief and never look at the gradesheets.

 

[NavAir42]

...the IP opened the cowling and said it was time to tell him about parts of the engine...on a VNAV...right before selection. So yeah, they're out there.

Wow, dick move.

 

[Gatordev]

Wow, dick move.

He was actually a good guy, just didn't quite understand how the game was played, if you know what I mean.

 

[NavAir42]

I guess it happens. Still, poor SA on the instructors part.

 

[Random Task]

Wow, great thread. I've been sitting through FITC (Flight Instructor Training Course) at NASP for the last two days. Reading all the posts in this thread have been far more productive than the 12 hours or so we spent in class over the last couple of days.

I was on the other side of the VTC yesterday and was thinking to myself...this would be so much more effective on AW