Best and worst experiences with flight instructors

[KBayDog]

Every instructor has to know when to be a coach, and when to be a referee.

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: How many fleet IP syllabi actually teach someone how to teach? ("Train the Trainer," I believe the Kool-Aid crowd likes to call it.)

With only one exception, the best IPs I had in the fleet all had previous FRS or TRACOM experience. They actually knew how to instruct. Some were good at the choppering side of instructing, and some were good at the Chicken Patch side of instructing. Still, they all knew how to quickly and effectively get their studs where they needed to be. They were the "coaches."

Nothing against the home-grown, T&R-trained IPs, but they just did not have the experience...or formal instruction...to be effective teachers. They tended to be the "referees."

 

[bunk22]

Being a flight instructor is tough, as it seems not every student responds to teachings the same way. I've now been an IP at the FRS (VAW-120), primary (VT-6, T-34C's) and now with TW-2 (T-45C's). At times it is frustrating, seemingly no matter what you say or do, the student does not learn. Other times, it works out great, the student learns with my input!!! Some studs don't listen unless you get in their face, tell them to unfuck themselves and start listening while others fall apart that slightest hint of raising your voice. Teaching is not easy but it's nice when you see a student see the light and learn to fly.

 

[AirPirate]

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: How many fleet IP syllabi actually teach someone how to teach?

Valid...tough one though. Teaching is leadership and leadership is influence, therefore teaching is influence. Influence is motivating someone to do something that they otherwise would not do or might not prefer to do. How many officers are taught to lead? Isn't everyone basically just thrown into the thick of it all? It's sink or swim out there. No one is taught how to instruct because no one is taught how to lead. No one is taught to lead both inside and outside of the military and leaders grow on their own (a mentor or some examples might help) rather than from formalized training. The instructors who succeed are better leaders, as they are bettter "influencers" of people. There are other instructors who give up on leadership because it's hard and their jobs are exhausting enough. Being an IP forces you to really flex your leadership style portfolio to meet the one-on-one demands of a different student/personality day after day -- just when you have come off your first tour as a DivO, possibly having cemented at least a few workable leadership skills to influence those guys.

All the techniques are out there. It's just a matter of picking the right one for the job. Even yelling is a valid technique -- for the right situation -- just like not saying anything can speak volumes in another instance. I'm sure it comes as a shock to some guys that it's more about people than flying, after everything they have been focusing on is flying.

 

[Gatordev]

Words.

Eh. I think you have very valid points and are right about someone being able to "influence" someone, be it a good leader or something else. But when I went through the FITU as well as while I was an IP, I was specifically taught how to teach things. That may have been some fraction of the overall "method" I used to teach, but there tends to be more formalized teaching on how to instruct when you go to a school house vs being an IP in the fleet, which I think is what Kbay was getting at.

Obviously this is all generalizations. There's sucky TRACOM/RAG IPs just like they're are good fleet-only IPs, but I think that's where you get back to what you were saying.

 

[AirPirate]

Gotcha...same page. I guess we could draw the analogy of being a parent because that's a leadership opportunity too. Hopefully there are good guidelines, tools, or resources out there to pull from, but there isn't a big book available of how to make your kid so awesome that they can fly for the Navy. I just brought it up because we tend to get lost in the mix, not realizing that we need to influence people.

 

[sbeaTm08]

Best IP's- ones who talk, be it yelling or verbal high fives for those who need it. As long as they say something through the course of the flight.

Worst IP's- ones who just sit there and don't say a damn thing regardless of how shit hot or shitty you're doing. I had one who literally said somewhere in the region of 20 words from brief to flight to debrief.

 

[Gatordev]

Gotcha...same page. I guess we could draw the analogy of being a parent because that's a leadership opportunity too. Hopefully there are good guidelines, tools, or resources out there to pull from, but there isn't a big book available of how to make your kid so awesome that they can fly for the Navy. I just brought it up because we tend to get lost in the mix, not realizing that we need to influence people.

I'm with you.

 

[wlawr005]

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: How many fleet IP syllabi actually teach someone how to teach? ("Train the Trainer," I believe the Kool-Aid crowd likes to call it.)

With only one exception, the best IPs I had in the fleet all had previous FRS or TRACOM experience. They actually knew how to instruct. Some were good at the choppering side of instructing, and some were good at the Chicken Patch side of instructing. Still, they all knew how to quickly and effectively get their studs where they needed to be. They were the "coaches."

Nothing against the home-grown, T&R-trained IPs, but they just did not have the experience...or formal instruction...to be effective teachers. They tended to be the "referees."

I find it odd that enlisted instructors are required to complete the MTS course, however there is no such training for officers. The MTS course is fairly tough, culminating with an instructor evaluated teaching session and Q&A regarding teaching methods. Maybe we need to keep this quiet before someone makes an NKO course for it.

 

[Uncle Fester]

I find it odd that enlisted instructors are required to complete the MTS course, however there is no such training for officers. The MTS course is fairly tough, culminating with an instructor evaluated teaching session and Q&A regarding teaching methods. Maybe we need to keep this quiet before someone makes an NKO course for it.

Don't go there. The NASC instructors got roped into that JITC mess, and it's useless. Their training is geared toward someone who has never taught anyone anything, ever. Any pilot or FO returning from the Fleet has done a lot more instructing than they train to, never mind the Level IV/V guys.

Being a flight instructor is tough, as it seems not every student responds to teachings the same way. I've now been an IP at the FRS (VAW-120), primary (VT-6, T-34C's) and now with TW-2 (T-45C's). At times it is frustrating, seemingly no matter what you say or do, the student does not learn. Other times, it works out great, the student learns with my input!!! Some studs don't listen unless you get in their face, tell them to unfuck themselves and start listening while others fall apart that slightest hint of raising your voice. Teaching is not easy but it's nice when you see a student see the light and learn to fly.

Well, yeah, Bunky - you get the teaching part. Realizing that not every student is going to learn the same way is a hell of a lot further than a lot of IPs seem willing to go.

My pet theory is that you can only be an effective instructor for about 14-18 months. After that, their faces and mistakes blur together and you just get angry at the little bastards. At that point, it's time to move on, because you're no longer doing you, the stud, or the service any good.

 

[phrogpilot73]

I find it odd that enlisted instructors are required to complete the MTS course, however there is no such training for officers. The MTS course is fairly tough, culminating with an instructor evaluated teaching session and Q&A regarding teaching methods. Maybe we need to keep this quiet before someone makes an NKO course for it.

MTS is available for officers. It's usually other shit that keeps them busy and unable to participate.

 

[Gatordev]

My pet theory is that you can only be an effective instructor for about 14-18 months. After that, their faces and mistakes blur together and you just get angry at the little bastards. At that point, it's time to move on, because you're no longer doing you, the stud, or the service any good.

You just didn't take enough leave or find other activities/TADs to "recharge" you. That's why I always tried to do CORTRAMID. It was something different, and different is good.

 

[Bobola2005]

Teaching is leadership and leadership is influence, therefore teaching is influence. Influence is motivating someone to do something that they otherwise would not do or might not prefer to do.

So what you are saying is that all those skills I learned selling cars aren't going to go to waste?! Yes!

 

[phrogdriver]

Let me ask you (and anyone else) this: How many fleet IP syllabi actually teach someone how to teach? ("Train the Trainer," I believe the Kool-Aid crowd likes to call it.)

With only one exception, the best IPs I had in the fleet all had previous FRS or TRACOM experience. They actually knew how to instruct. Some were good at the choppering side of instructing, and some were good at the Chicken Patch side of instructing. Still, they all knew how to quickly and effectively get their studs where they needed to be. They were the "coaches."

Nothing against the home-grown, T&R-trained IPs, but they just did not have the experience...or formal instruction...to be effective teachers. They tended to be the "referees."

Still usually the case. In defense of some of the refereeing, though, you're teaching different things. Coaching is usually about monkey skills. There are some monkey skill flights in the fleet, e.g. CQs, externals, RVLs, AR, etc. Those rely greatly on coaching, or at least they should.

Most of the Xs as one progresses are about flight leadership. At some point, you've got to just kick the bird out of the next and see if he flies. He has to do what an actual flight leader does and then get the teaching points. Now, there definitely are a couple of bad ways to debrief those. One of them is to just say,"Good hop, no problems noted." Just as bad, though, is the old-style MAWTS-1,"laundry list of everything that could conceivably have been done a different way." I can't debrief that way, if only because I can't remember the content of the brief at the same time I make tick-marks every time the briefer says,"uh."

At least in the V-22s, there is actually a "Basic Flight Instructor Training Course" (1-day classroom event usually taught by contractors) that all the new TACs have to do, as well as a couple of IP technique flights. While the quality of these does vary, I am glad that we are trying to put concerted effort into trying to make better IPs at the fleet level.

 

[KBayDog]

At least in the V-22s, there is actually a "Basic Flight Instructor Training Course" (1-day classroom event usually taught by contractors) that all the new TACs have to do, as well as a couple of IP technique flights. While the quality of these does vary, I am glad that we are trying to put concerted effort into trying to make better IPs at the fleet level.

7562s went this route a few years ago. No classroom instruction - just four flights to designate a "Basic Instructor Pilot." It allows the new HAC to instruct certain basic 2000-level flights (FAM, INST, EXT, etc.) Good concept, especially if given time to mature, but I think it was just viewed as four more Xs that had to be scheduled somewhere between the something like 5Xs for HAC, and 7Xs for Section Lead.

 

[nittany03]

Good instructors are also grounded and have perspective. Whether it's because they know they have above-average monkey skills, knowledge, and/or SA, or just because they tend to be of the laid-back persuasion, it's essential in my mind for an instructor to be comfortable with giving a stud rope to hang themselves with, while still trying to guide them back to the path as they start to go down the road of dorking something away. They will challenge above-average studs while knowing that they've moved into the realm beyond the minimum, where it may or may not matter if a stud gets something right. They will not make things personal when a stud screws up, and they know to recognize the big screwups from the little ones.

I think you usually see the converse of this when an instructor is bitter at his life, he's insecure about his own abilities, or he's excessively egotistical. Students generally think he's an ass, and don't want to fly with him. He may keep studs on such a short leash that they never learn anything,because he's not comfortable with his own ability to save the situation otherwise. The pissed-off-at-the-world type may belittle or humiliate them when they screw up, in excess of what may be necessary to "make it sting" for a lazy or unmotivated stud. It's one thing to deliberately jack up the stress level in a calculated manner in order to see if the stud can handle pressure. But if you're an LT and you have an Ensign standing at attention in front of your desk for anything other than the most cosmically negligent and stupid boneheaded move known to man, you're doing it wrong, and need to reexamine your temper and how it affects your teaching.

Other pitfalls I've seen are the instructor who has the NATOPS/FTI memorized, and consciously or subconsciously uses this as a tool to intimidate students in the brief. This also meshes somewhat with the guy who sets aside as much debrief time to talk about using the wrong color on a briefing board as he does to dorking away an intercept. Teach a kid to kill the closest alligator first. Sometimes someone who is insecure about his aviating abilities will show off his memorizing abilities to try to hide his flaws. Other times, huge brains just can't interact well socially, don't work on improving this, and don't realize that this cripples their ability to teach. The converse of the insecure types are those who have the best stick skills/SA out there, but are jaded and hold struggling studs in contempt, consciously or not. It doesn't matter worth a damn how good you are if you can't turn around someone who needs help and make them into your replacement if it's possible to do so.

Just some Saturday thoughts from someone who spent way too much time in the TRACOM.