Bar Stool Economics

[Flash]

Come up with one of your own and I might be impressed Flash.:sleep_125

You want some original arguments against it? It has never been done on such a large scale, and you want to do it with the richest country in the world? Sure, some states don't have an income tax but they have property taxes too. So you are basically going to throw all your eggs in one basket and hope it all works out.

Which brings me to another point, you can post all the facts and figures you want but how do you know things are really going to work out like that. I have not seen the really big figures, like how much Americans have spent in a year and how much tax we would be able to get from the national sales tax. Would it be a one for one replacement? Or even close? I have little confidence that it would be, especially if our spending habits change as a result of this new tax.

Finally, there is something that bothers me about how many people argue for the 'fair tax'. Some of the arguments resemble, to a certain degree, the fanaticism and insistence that I have only seen with some people's beliefs in certain political ideologies. The insistence that it will work, the uncompromising stance in implementing it and the absolute certainty that it will work is a bit of a turn off to people like me, who cast a wary eye to begin with to something that it is so new and unusual. Combined with the fact that people are willing to try it, when nothing approaching it has been tried anywhere else of any signifigance or scale, on what appears to me to be faith alone, is a little unsettling. And the whole 'inclusive' vs 'exclusive' and the tax rate advertised for fair tax' is pretty disingenuous, especially when you have to 're-educate' Americans on how much the sales tax really is.

Oh, and to let you in on a little secret of democracy, it is all about compromise. If this ever becomes a serious proposal, which I doubt it does, it will be so riddled with exceptions and compromises that it will probably not even resemble the original proposal. Remember, there is still a 'loyal opposition' in this country.

And if it is such a grand idea, why has no one else done it? States included.

 

[navy09]

This would be partially offset by the BX/commissary - not being charged a 25% sales tax would save more money than not being charged the current 5-8% sales tax.

You'd have to buy a helluva lot of milk at the commissary to come out on top of that one

Plus, the NEX would be charging sales tax. There might still be a discount on sales tax, but you wouldn't be ducking a 25% sales tax.

 

[Single Seat]

How's this Flash. Tax everyone evenly with the current system. Why should I pay more of a percentage of my income if I decide to better my life, go to college, and thus make more money, than someone who doesn't?

Why should I pay 30-40% as opposed to someone who makes less money, and only pays 15-25%? By default if I make more I'm paying more.

Fairtax may not be perfect, but it's better than what we have, and the savings alone from scaling down the IRS would be worth it. A flat 15 or 20% income tax across the board for the population would serve the same purpose. You could uncomplicate the current system, and stop driving US jobs over seas.

 

[Flash]

How's this Flash. Tax everyone evenly with the current system. Why should I pay more of a percentage of my income if I decide to better my life, go to college, and thus make more money, than someone who doesn't?

That is a lot more reasonable, and in my opinion more economically sound. There would still be a lot of issues. Like what exactly is income? What exemptions would be made? What abotu many of the tax exemptions in place now? Once the lawyers, lobbyists and lawmakers get their hands on it, it will hardly resemble the original proposal.

Fairtax may not be perfect, but it's better than what we have, and the savings alone from scaling down the IRS would be worth it. A flat 15 or 20% income tax across the board for the population would serve the same purpose. You could uncomplicate the current system, and stop driving US jobs over seas.

Not perfect, but better than we have now? That is all? Pretty poor argument.

As for savings from scaling down the IRS, what planet are you on? The IRS has a total budget of about $11 billion dollars, that is a drop in the bucket of the $2.9 trillion federal government budget, or about 0.38% of the total budget (I hope I did the math right).

http://www.irs.gov/pub/newsroom/budget-in-brief-2008.pdf

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/summarytables.html

As for driving American jobs overseas, until the American worker is as cheap as the ones in Bangladesh, Vietnam, Mexico and elsewhere then jobs are going to move there.

 

[voodooqueen]

The $10 per beer guy who overpopulates the world with offspring doubtless drinks for free as well as the poor guy.

 

[HeloBubba]

One of the problems with using sales tax to generate revenues, is that you are trusting the establishment that is collecting the tax to actually turn around and send/give it to the Feds.

 

[brownshoe]

As for driving American jobs overseas, until the American worker is as cheap as the ones in Bangladesh, Vietnam, Mexico and elsewhere then jobs are going to move there.

We did a project here in town, “Saint John Regional School.” A fairly Large job and designed by a good civil engineering firm here in, Frederick. They’d decided to “farm” out some work to an engineering firm in India. They fell for the trap, cheap labor, overseas.

Three designs on a simple road widening change were all wrong. Finally, in an exasperating meeting on site, with the city engineers and the design firm, a decision was made: Steve, can we build this? I replied: “Yes, get out of my way, we’ll do “as built drawings” when it’s over.” We did build it! ( Oh… and by the way, this civil engineering firm doesn’t utilize that foreign firm any longer.)

I weep for the future… just like A4sforever, and this ain’t about naval aviation. I was at the local Frederick Gas Company today getting some “as built” drawings. They told me that now the billing is done in India.

Steve

 

[Spekkio]

While I share your sentiments about outsourcing, there is a general lack of interest in engineering here in the USA compared to India and China, and it starts at the secondary level. The NY public school system only requires 2 years of science and math vs. 4 for english and social studies to graduate HS.

 

[brownshoe]

While I share your sentiments about outsourcing, there is a general lack of interest in engineering here in the USA compared to India and China.

Might be young man. But the folks overseas do need to get it RIGHT! And, that's my point.

Steve

 

[HueyCobra8151]

In a few years our older engineer-types are going to retire and we are going to be fooked royally.

But here's to you Mr. I-Chose-Liberal-Arts-Because-It's-Easier-And-I-Can-Go-Out-Drinking-Every-Night-While-My-Parents-And-The-Government-Pay-All-My-Bills Guy.

 

[MasterBates]

In a few years our older engineer-types are going to retire and we are going to be fooked royally..

If that is true, I will be rolling in dough. Because I will have something in short supply, and I can demand what I want for it

 

[scoolbubba]

In a few years our older engineer-types are going to retire and we are going to be fooked royally.

But here's to you Mr. I-Chose-Liberal-Arts-Because-It's-Easier-And-I-Can-Go-Out-Drinking-Every-Night-While-My-Parents-And-The-Government-Pay-All-My-Bills Guy.

because obviously, engineers have never fucked anything up, ever.

these kind of statements are full retard, not even close to borderline retard. I wasn't an engineer. I could have been. I chose not to because while I was really effing good at math and science, I didn't enjoy them, and frankly, they bored the shit out of me.
If you get off on thermodynamics or diff eq, great. Don't think you're better because some people don't. I didn't. I picked a major that I enjoyed and I worked my ass off to graduate MCL in it. I'll probably get a masters, and if I can finagle the navy paying for it, a Ph. D. in my field down the road.

I've busted my ass in flight school, and even without being able to bust a nut in my flight suit thinking about bernoulli's or coefficients of lift or drag, I've done pretty damn good for my stupid, liberal arts, went out drinking everynight (yea, coz that happens at military school) self.

end rant. :icon_rage

 

[BACONATOR]

because obviously, engineers have never fucked anything up, ever.

these kind of statements are full retard, not even close to borderline retard. I wasn't an engineer. I could have been. I chose not to because while I was really effing good at math and science, I didn't enjoy them, and frankly, they bored the shit out of me.
If you get off on thermodynamics or diff eq, great. Don't think you're better because some people don't. I didn't. I picked a major that I enjoyed and I worked my ass off to graduate MCL in it. I'll probably get a masters, and if I can finagle the navy paying for it, a Ph. D. in my field down the road.

I've busted my ass in flight school, and even without being able to bust a nut in my flight suit thinking about bernoulli's or coefficients of lift or drag, I've done pretty damn good for my stupid, liberal arts, went out drinking everynight (yea, coz that happens at military school) self.

end rant. :icon_rage

I didn't want to be an engineer either, but I still decided to get a real degree anyway.

 

[Single Seat]

^^^^
Wow, someone touched a nerve.

 

[scoolbubba]

haha. yea, i was heated about 4 minutes ago.

Then i saw my sweet diploma, and realized whatever it said on it didn't matter, because i'm doing what i wanted to anyways.