Awards O sea stories

[RedFive]

At my current command I saw one of my DH's divisions was DIVOless. The Chiefs and Sailors were going straight to DH for DIVO shit. Like the idiot I am, I told him I'd take care of it. That's when I discovered that everyone in the command was submitting awards with however many fucking lines they wanted. And Admin and the O-6s in the front office were just passing them up the chain and signing like it was no big deal. For fuck sake. You got a fucking COM for showing up to work for three years, you didn't get shot at, you didn't save any lives, you just did your job. The instruction says 7.5 lines. Period.

And I got pushback from the Chief's mess. Fuck that. We have instructions for a reason. DH supported me. Now the entire command is unfucked. It's the small battles....right? ?

 

[snake020]

Anyone have any sea stories from their time as Awards O (or a bystander) they can share? Good/ bad/ ugly anecdotes? Sailors who were upset that they didn't receive a XYZCOM as their end-of-tour award? Aviators missing out on an Air Medal by only a couple sorties? Stolen valor? Paperwork mix-ups or other crazy stuff? @mad dog still wanting a NAM?

This is from my Air Force days: at Al Udeid, squadron commanders were routinely given Bronze Stars as EOT medals, and MSMs were given to low performing ones. My squadron commander (O-5) was tapped for an MSM and was butthurt about it, so he asked me not to include the award in his change of command which I was the action officer for (I was a lowly 1st Lt at the time)

A couple weeks out from the CoC, the group commander's EA (O-3) was reviewing the draft script and asked why the EOT medal wasn't included. I gave my squadron CO's position, and the EA stated at per the group CO's (O-6) orders, all EOTs were to be included in CoC ceremonies. I brought this up with my squadron CO, who came back to me the next day saying he'd discussed with the group CO and confirmed it was fine to leave the EOT out.

Day before the CoC, EA rings me up, aggravated that I'd seemingly ignored his direction to modify the script to include the EOT. When I explained that my squadron CO had spoken with the group CO, the EA advised no such conversation had taken place. Once again I went to my squadron CO asking for direction. In the interim, the group CO's staff had delivered the citation and medal to our admin section to have ready for the ceremony; his reply to me: "well, if we say I've already packed the citation and medal in my household goods, then I guess we won't be able to have it included."

A quick end: day of the ceremony we have a walkthrough, we get to the part where the EOT should be and it's not there, at which time the group CO interrupts the rehearsal to ask where the EOT is in the script. The squadron CO starts fumbling an excuse only to be interrupted by the O-6 who says "your EOT will be read here, we will print off another citation and lend you a medal from admin for the ceremony, end of discussion." After the rehearsal, the O-6 finds me and says "don't worry, I know you've been caught in the middle of this, you've done fine."

All because some underperforming O-5 at a CENTCOM support base thought he deserved a Bronze Star.

 

[Flash]

All because some underperforming O-5 at a CENTCOM support base thought he deserved a Bronze Star.

LOTS of undeserving folks walking around with Bronze Stars unfortunately.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This is from my Air Force days: at Al Udeid, squadron commanders were routinely given Bronze Stars as EOT medals, and MSMs were given to low performing ones. My squadron commander (O-5) was tapped for an MSM and was butthurt about it, so he asked me not to include the award in his change of command which I was the action officer for (I was a lowly 1st Lt at the time)

A couple weeks out from the CoC, the group commander's EA (O-3) was reviewing the draft script and asked why the EOT medal wasn't included. I gave my squadron CO's position, and the EA stated at per the group CO's (O-6) orders, all EOTs were to be included in CoC ceremonies. I brought this up with my squadron CO, who came back to me the next day saying he'd discussed with the group CO and confirmed it was fine to leave the EOT out.

Day before the CoC, EA rings me up, aggravated that I'd seemingly ignored his direction to modify the script to include the EOT. When I explained that my squadron CO had spoken with the group CO, the EA advised no such conversation had taken place. Once again I went to my squadron CO asking for direction. In the interim, the group CO's staff had delivered the citation and medal to our admin section to have ready for the ceremony; his reply to me: "well, if we say I've already packed the citation and medal in my household goods, then I guess we won't be able to have it included."

A quick end: day of the ceremony we have a walkthrough, we get to the part where the EOT should be and it's not there, at which time the group CO interrupts the rehearsal to ask where the EOT is in the script. The squadron CO starts fumbling an excuse only to be interrupted by the O-6 who says "your EOT will be read here, we will print off another citation and lend you a medal from admin for the ceremony, end of discussion." After the rehearsal, the O-6 finds me and says "don't worry, I know you've been caught in the middle of this, you've done fine."

All because some underperforming O-5 at a CENTCOM support base thought he deserved a Bronze Star.

I personally know a USAF officer who did a tour in the middle east as a personal officer who for his deployment award rec'd a Bronze Star.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Some people get butthurt tying awards to ranks, but it's a thing. Generally as follows.
NAM = E-6 to E-7 or O-1 to O-3. Exceptions on the E side for an impact award for outstanding performance. I once got one of my E-5s a spot NAM. On the flight deck, on a black-ass night, standing five feet and not much more, she stopped a clueless helo E-3 from walking too close to a turning Prowler intake via a flying tackle. I wish I'd have been there to see it, but I'm told it was impressive. The Safety O wanted to put her in for "Safety Pro of the Month," but I circular-filed that shit, wrote up a 1650, and got it approved. NAM approving authority is generally any O-5 or above CO of the AC and SELRES hardware squadron COs.

NCM = E-7 to E-8 or O-4. I've seen shoe O-3s walking around with them, but hey . . . they're shoes. Approving authority is generally the CO's boss, and usually an O-6 of some variety.

MSM = this is what the CMC and CO get as EOT awards; that's all an Ensign really needs to worry about. Let alone anything higher. On the reserve side, note that many (most) reserve units are not commissioned units. This means the CO doesn't get NJP authority, doesn't wear the sheriff's badge, and can't award decorations. Thus, they go to the gaining active CO. So you need to know the timeframe it takes to chop an award through your SELRES unit AND the timeframe it takes to get it approved on the active side. Plan for a month when a NAM hits the AC's inbox initially. Add a month for every layer in the COC for an NCM or MSM.

Spot awards are generally less likely to be seen the more senior you get.

More junior Sailors who don't rate impact NAMs generally get a CO's Letter of Commendation. They don't get advancement points for that, but it beats giving them nothing.

Oh, and when it comes to advancement points, one of the reasons NAMs get handed out like candy is because they get the Sailor 2 points and can get approved by an O-5. Flag letters of commendation are a thing. But see my above comment about layers of bureaucracy . . . a FLOC is approved by an O-7 and only gets a Sailor one point. Why bother if you're not serving on a flag staff?

That is better than some of the places I have been, for cruise awards E-5 and below LOA, E-6 to E-7 LOC, E-8 to E-9 NAM, O-3 offen would get NAM, NCM would be O-4/O-5, I would rarely see a MSM given out.

EOT awards if you were a hot running E-6 you "might" get a NAM, E-7 to E-9 would get a NAM also, the Dept LCPO or hot running E-8/E-9 would probably get a NCM, O-3's would get NAM, O-4's and above NCM, again MSM very rare.

One of our DH's who was a O-6 made a comment to his YNC that E-6 and below shouldn't be getting NAM's, he also felt an end of tour award for a second sea tour O-4 should be a NAM. The guy was a dick and killed many officer careers because he had his own views.

 

[Flash]

I personally know a USAF officer who did a tour in the middle east as a personal officer who for his deployment award rec'd a Bronze Star.

There are countless examples I know of including one I saw first-hand for a USNR AEDO CDR at my own command, and it helped him get CAPT. A well-known example from a few were these two USAF TSgt's who got BS's for:

"While in Afghanistan, she accurately executed operational funds across eight remote bases, providing commanders with flexibility in support of counterinsurgency efforts. Gamez trained 68 operational fund teams, reviewed 34 projects and funded 280 joint acquisition board packages enabling critical base sustainment."

And:

"She fought through long days and expended every ounce of her expertise to develop the financial processes for the command...She sought no personal benefit from her hard work, but she knew that she could improve the situation for special operations troops and the Afghan local police they partner with."

But they are just well known, there are way too many like my fellow reservist that aren't posted by the service PAO for everyone to see and every service but the Marines seems to have plenty of examples, and I know a handful of Marines that would fit into that category too.

From the article above in 2013:

- 13,354 Bronze Stars - Awarded by the USAF in Afghanistan and Iraq, 839 (6.3%) were awarded with valor for combat heroism.

- 158,567 Bronze Stars - Awarded by the Army in Afghanistan and Iraq, 4091 (2.6%) medals with "V" devices.

Then again, after WWII any soldier awarded the Combat Infantryman Badge was retroactively awarded a Bronze Star so this isn't unprecedented.

 

[nittany03]

That is better than some of the places I have been, for cruise awards E-5 and below LOA, E-6 to E-7 LOC, E-8 to E-9 NAM, O-3 offen would get NAM, NCM would be O-4/O-5, I would rarely see a MSM given out.

EOT awards if you were a hot running E-6 you "might" get a NAM, E-7 to E-9 would get a NAM also, the Dept LCPO or hot running E-8/E-9 would probably get a NCM, O-3's would get NAM, O-4's and above NCM, again MSM very rare.

One of our DH's who was a O-6 made a comment to his YNC that E-6 and below shouldn't be getting NAM's, he also felt an end of tour award for a second sea tour O-4 should be a NAM. The guy was a dick and killed many officer careers because he had his own views.

I wouldn't put that out as something I meant as a hard and fast rule, just a rough order of magnitude estimate for our young Ensign made while sipping a glass of bourbon after work. If anything, your post and mine show how the lines get blurred community to community and command to command.

That said, a NAM for a senior O-4? Yeesh. That might as well come wrapped up in a bow with a big fat tag on it saying "fuck you."

 

[Pags]

At my current command I saw one of my DH's divisions was DIVOless. The Chiefs and Sailors were going straight to DH for DIVO shit. Like the idiot I am, I told him I'd take care of it. That's when I discovered that everyone in the command was submitting awards with however many fucking lines they wanted. And Admin and the O-6s in the front office were just passing them up the chain and signing like it was no big deal. For fuck sake. You got a fucking COM for showing up to work for three years, you didn't get shot at, you didn't save any lives, you just did your job. The instruction says 7.5 lines. Period.

And I got pushback from the Chief's mess. Fuck that. We have instructions for a reason. DH supported me. Now the entire command is unfucked. It's the small battles....right? ?

Where do we get such men?

I hope you got an award for your troubles.

 

[Pags]

LOTS of undeserving folks walking around with Bronze Stars unfortunately.

So what makes them undeserving of a BS? It's authorized to be awarded for meritorious service below that of a LoM in a combat zone. If people are doing meritorious work in a combat zone why not give them a BS? Nothing requires it be given only for combat action. That's what the "V" is for.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I wouldn't put that out as something I meant as a hard and fast rule, just a rough order of magnitude estimate for our young Ensign made while sipping a glass of bourbon after work. If anything, your post and mine show how the lines get blurred community to community and command to command.

That said, a NAM for a senior O-4? Yeesh. That might as well come wrapped up in a bow with a big fat tag on it saying "fuck you."

This guy used it as a hard and fast rule, I don't think a single officer that worked for him during that time who stayed in ended up commanding a ship.

 

[Flash]

So what makes them undeserving of a BS? It's authorized to be awarded for meritorious service below that of a LoM in a combat zone. If people are doing meritorious work in a combat zone why not give them a BS? Nothing requires it be given only for combat action. That's what the "V" is for.

Because it goes against the original intent of the award, to recognize service in combat. Personally I think that unless you rate a combat action award you shouldn’t rate one, even a meritorious one. I am not the only one who thinks so, plenty of Army officers I served with to include my CG adhered to that idea and the Marines as a service seems to generally follow the guideline of personal exposure to combat to rate one.

My view is also colored by seeing a considerable amount of hypocrisy by several I personally knew or saw awarded one and the process by which some were awarded.

 

[kejo]

My general thought on the state of awards

I have two awards that I actually think I worked for. Coast guard award for drug bustin’ and earning our squadron’s first Battle E in its history. Maybe my shooter tour EOT.

 

[BigRed389]

Some people get butthurt tying awards to ranks, but it's a thing. Generally as follows.
NAM = E-6 to E-7 or O-1 to O-3. Exceptions on the E side for an impact award for outstanding performance. I once got one of my E-5s a spot NAM. On the flight deck, on a black-ass night, standing five feet and not much more, she stopped a clueless helo E-3 from walking too close to a turning Prowler intake via a flying tackle. I wish I'd have been there to see it, but I'm told it was impressive. The Safety O wanted to put her in for "Safety Pro of the Month," but I circular-filed that shit, wrote up a 1650, and got it approved. NAM approving authority is generally any O-5 or above CO of the AC and SELRES hardware squadron COs.

NCM = E-7 to E-8 or O-4. I've seen shoe O-3s walking around with them, but hey . . . they're shoes. Approving authority is generally the CO's boss, and usually an O-6 of some variety.

NCM's for more senior O-3's in URL is not uncommon from what I've seen, at least outside aviation. The first time I got put up for one was by my EOD OIC. Second was from an aviator on my shore tour...go figure.
For SWOs you're generally due an EOT as new LTJG (1st sea tour), as a new LT (2nd sea tour), and then two more times as a LT (shore tour and sea tour as DH).
The DH one should be as a LCDR (Sel), or at least screening for LCDR and by that point, having 4 NAMs would just be a bit silly.
For the more junior LTs, it's just a way to breakout the guys who are doing better. Still rare though, and as you note, also probably has to do with the bureaucracy involved...you can do the exact same job on a CG or DDG, but one CO is an O-6 and the other is not...

More junior Sailors who don't rate impact NAMs generally get a CO's Letter of Commendation. They don't get advancement points for that, but it beats giving them nothing.

Oh, and when it comes to advancement points, one of the reasons NAMs get handed out like candy is because they get the Sailor 2 points and can get approved by an O-5. Flag letters of commendation are a thing. But see my above comment about layers of bureaucracy . . . a FLOC is approved by an O-7 and only gets a Sailor one point. Why bother if you're not serving on a flag staff?

And following up on that, for O's, EOT's are basically just ticket punching because it's become a normalized expectation on boards, to the point it can become problematic if you don't get one on the way out.
Similarly, again, see above about NCMs being another way to give a minor bump up to JO's who are performing well above.

As a junior Shoe, I’d just been moved from being First Lt to AdminO on my FFG while on a counter-drug cruise. I’d written up one of my coxswains for a NCM for doing an outstanding job landing and then bringing off a boarding team during a nasty night at sea. The Coastie in charge of the LEDET said it was some of the best small-boat handling he’d seen in his career.

Anyway, one day the XO calls me up to his stateroom and in the same breath tells me he’s 1) rejecting the BM2’s Comm because “we don’t give out medals just for doing your job,” and 2) to contact DESRON and see how the Captain’s EOT award paperwork is coming along.

The same CO, by the way, had been on the verge of being relieved for cause twice in the preceding six months.

Wonder if you would've had better luck with it as a NAM. Right or wrong, I've always seen heavy pushback on spot awards above paygrade. A LT isn't going to get an MSM, even if they find a way to save $1T from the budget or invent the most ingenious TTP that'll single handedly win the next war.

 

[azguy]

NCM = E-7 to E-8 or O-4. I've seen shoe O-3s walking around with them, but hey . . . they're shoes. Approving authority is generally the CO's boss, and usually an O-6 of some variety.

Not uncommon for a 2nd tour JO (fresh LT) to leave with a COM, but the norm is a NAM. Post JO shore duty = COM.

Never heard of an AwardsO, that's just an AdminO (if we have one) or YNC responsibility. Either way, it's not rocket science, the 1650.xx (Awards Manual) is the bible.

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

Two commands ago, we used the "socratic" method for command awards. The DIVO/DLCPO would present the Sailor's proposed EOT. Questions would be asked and finally it would come to a vote. Majority vote would result in a YES for that award. If there was a majority NO, a lesser award would be suggested and voted (typically to an agreement).