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Auto Carrier Landings?

A4sForever said:
What are the limits on the Mode 1 system?? The deck pitching, rolling, and heaving ... etc., etc. ???
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Mefesto said:
I forget the exact numbers... but it's not alot.
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Well, I'm curious ... as my first night CQ had the LSO saying thing's like: "don't watch the ball, the deck's pitching out of limits ... don't look at the drop lights ... she's rolling too badly ... JUST LISTEN TO ME ... !!! LISTEN TO ME !!! " :eek:

I did ... but I also went from idle to MRT a couple of times every pass that night, just to get aboard. I don't think Mode-anything would have filled the bill ... but it's just a guess.

USS Ticonderoga, San Clemente channel .... bad night. But I got qualled and beat a few Fleet retreads in the bargain. :)
 
We used Mode I ACLS approachs to ensure our Hornets got aboard first pass during OEF in Afgnaistan. This was on the Stennis. If they brought back a JDAM, they were Trick or Treat on the ball first pass. It counted for night currency, but pilot did not get the grade for his landing average.

There were requirements to work up to a full mode I that included day mode I (case III) passes prior to a night coupled approach.
 
Brett327 said:
As long as they're doing that, it would be nice to press a button and receive your Marshalling instructions, complete with charlie times, etc, which would automatically go into your Nav system/AFCS.
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We already pretty much do that in CAS through DCS or Link-16.
 
Sooooooooooooooooooooo .... either you guys don't know the limits ........ or Mode 1 can't handle a significant pitchin' /rollin'/heavin' deck .... ???:)

Then .... thank God for small favors ..... and LSO's ....

 
Fetter said:
I was doing night landings when I played around with that, so I couldn't really see the wires at all. I thought it was the 3 wire based on where the plane stopped on the deck, but after trying it in daylight, it always hits the 1 wire. Regardless, it is still pretty cool.
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Must have been rough..........I hear those desk top computers often move around quite a bit........the desk is up, you're on glideslope...etc......
 
Mefesto said:
I don't trust mode 1 on a calm wind, cavu day... if that means anything to you.
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That's what I suspected ... thanks, and ......... thank God for LSO's ....

 
bunk22 said:
Must have been rough..........I hear those desk top computers often move around quite a bit........the desk is up, you're on glideslope...etc......
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OK...I don't really get your point. I never said it was rough, just asking about the systems. Flight sims are as close as I can get to carrier landings right now.
 
A4sForever said:
Sooooooooooooooooooooo .... either you guys don't know the limits ........ or Mode 1 can't handle a significant pitchin' /rollin'/heavin' deck .... ???:)

Then .... thank God for small favors ..... and LSO's ....

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Disclaimer: I might be way off.

I don't think LSO NATOPS has deck motion limits for Mode I approaches. Since it is run off of info derived from the SPN-46 (ACLS) radars you can expect similar deviations from a coupled hornet as from a proficient pilot flying accurate "Needles" (provided the auto pilot system is keeping up). The SPN-46 has pretty good stabilization modes but I think that is all controlled from the tower. The LSO can control the stabilization modes of the IFLOLS but that is not related at all to Mode I approaches (except that it could cause the pilot to uncouple if he sees large deviations on the lense). I think the problem will be that "Needles" info goes away the last few seconds before touchdown. In a mode I approach the aircraft does a "fly what you got" during this time. So if there are large deck motions this could lead to an unsafe situation. And again, even if there was "Needles" info all the way to touchdown there would definitely be situations where either the stabilization wasn't keeping up or the a/c couldn't make timely corrections.

Because of all this it should be left up to the controlling LSO during a pass to tell the pilot to uncouple and to the CVW LSO to tell all pilots "no mode I's" (based on their experience of what the Mode I is capable of and how much deck motion they have). Even on calm days/nights I've seen Mode I bolters and 1 wires, it's definitely not perfect.

For more on pitching deck do a search on "Bug" Roach or check out lsoschool.org.

Check disclaimer at top.
 
S3Dude said:
1. ......
Because of all this it should be left up to the controlling LSO during a pass to tell the pilot to uncouple and to the CVW LSO to tell all pilots "no mode I's".... it's definitely not perfect.

2. For more on pitching deck do a search ..... lsoschool.org.
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1. Good info and opinion ... thanks for taking the time to pass it along. Your narrative tells me that while you boys have far better equipment today than we did ... my early SPN-41 was a POS and even though I was considered "cutting edge" back-in-the-day for trying it on a regular basis (as that was the ONLY way the ship would maintain it --- if guys would try it --- have it fail --- and then write it up) ... it sounds like the more things change (your better equipment) ... the more they stay the same (the LSO doing his job, making decisions, making the calls, and controlling the approach in all its facets).

2. Check the LSO school .... I always do .... telephone. They probably wonder what an "old guy" is doing making inquiries, but they always are willing to help an "old LSO" learn new tricks. It's interesting to compare how is was with how it is ....

Thanks again.
 
A4sForever said:
... my early SPN-41 was a POS and even though I was considered "cutting edge" back-in-the-day
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On L-class ships it is still the "cutting edge". Many don't even have that. I guess that tell you what the navy thinks of the ships we deploy on. Our CCAs won't even work in the rain for GS (if they work at all). ASRs only. Typical Case III recovery is radar vectors to a self contained approach (TACAN or Needles) with an ASR as more of "advisory". That's when the TACAN works (or is calibrated).

Ultimately, the LSO gets you aboard and keeps you out of the water.
 
TurnandBurn55 said:
We already pretty much do that in CAS through DCS or Link-16.
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Speak for yourself. ;) It's usually @ssholes and elbows in my cockpit working your geometry off a verbal 9-line for EW CAS to provide good coverage for you guys.

Brett
 
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