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Attrite From OCS due to DNF on IST runs

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
R commissions makes it administratively easier for the bureau to kick you to the curb (IRR) if there's a drawdown. Remember that most WWII commissions were reserve commissions.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Not saying AOCS was in the wrong, but 50% attrition through advanced seems fairly excessive, or that they were recruiting the wrong people.
50% attrition was Navy wide. AOCS had much less. They attired them all during AOCS (only 30-40% commissioned) where it was cheaper.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Hal, I suggest you write to OTC and request an invitation to observe for a couple of days at Newport and see how it compares with what you remember.
Not going to happen, I don’t care that much.

It was the times why AOCS was difficult. Much more was acceptable than now. One reason being you didn’t have instant national attention to every little thing via 24 hour news and the internet. There was an E that drown during rescue swimmer school while I was at AOCS and no one knew outside of Pensacola. No huge outcry for change or to lay blame. It’s like I tell my daughter, when I was a kid blowing up your neighbor’s mail box with a homemade pipe bomb was a teenage prank and now it’s a terrorist activity.

It’s just like when hazing was allowed at the academies and military schools. Plebes and Rats had a much harder more miserable year than now. It was acceptable then it wasn’t.
 

HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Something that everyone I keep in touch with from my AOCS class (16-83) is Gunny Kerr and class 13-83. 13-83 started with 60+ candidates on day 1. Gunny Kerr said the class number was 13-83 which meant there would only be 13 commissioning. Normally the DIs backed off on trying to get DORs at the end of week 10 (13 week program) but Gunny Kerr still had 15 in the class at that point with another due to roll in after falling back from a previous class. Gunny Kerr worked that class until the end of week 12 before he got them down to 13. One ended up rolling due to a stress fracture from PT and the other 3 DORed, on the last day before becoming a candidate officer.

There was also a class that had their last DOR the day before commissioning. He had decided mid way through the program that the military wasn’t for him but he didn’t want to let the DIs have the satisfaction of driving him out. So at the party the night before he got up and announced that now that he’d proved he could complete the program despite the DIs best efforts he was done.
 

flgator92

Active Member
Before commissioning in the Navy through OCS, I was also putting together a Marine OCS package and see who picked me up first. This was the Marine's solution: https://www.mcrc.marines.mil/Portals/95/Officer Programs/Other Forms/Hold Harmless Agreements.pdf?ver=2016-07-19-103100-733. I never understood why the Marines would run full PFTs and PT sessions for their candidates in the predawn hours while the Navy was so apprehensive. The Marines obviously have found a program that works and has been successfully implemented. Surely, the USN could too. Just have candidates/poolees sign hold harmless forms and run a PFT. If a candidate can't pass the crunches and/or push ups, don't let them do the run until they can for safety.
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Before commissioning in the Navy through OCS, I was also putting together a Marine OCS package and see who picked me up first. This was the Marine's solution: https://www.mcrc.marines.mil/Portals/95/Officer Programs/Other Forms/Hold Harmless Agreements.pdf?ver=2016-07-19-103100-733. I never understood why the Marines would run full PFTs and PT sessions for their candidates in the predawn hours while the Navy was so apprehensive. The Marines obviously have found a program that works and has been successfully implemented. Surely, the USN could too. Just have candidates/poolees sign hold harmless forms and run a PFT. If a candidate can't pass the crunches and/or push ups, don't let them do the run until they can for safety.
Navy leadership has a risk avoidance mentality. They seek to avoid any risks that could jeopardize their command/career potential.
 

Swanee

Self aware since 2014
pilot
Contributor
Before commissioning in the Navy through OCS, I was also putting together a Marine OCS package and see who picked me up first. This was the Marine's solution: https://www.mcrc.marines.mil/Portals/95/Officer Programs/Other Forms/Hold Harmless Agreements.pdf?ver=2016-07-19-103100-733. I never understood why the Marines would run full PFTs and PT sessions for their candidates in the predawn hours while the Navy was so apprehensive. The Marines obviously have found a program that works and has been successfully implemented. Surely, the USN could too. Just have candidates/poolees sign hold harmless forms and run a PFT. If a candidate can't pass the crunches and/or push ups, don't let them do the run until they can for safety.
The Marine Corps has had issues recently with bootcamp poolees dying during the initial fitness test (not a PFT or CFT).

Officer Candidates are screened a bit better by OSO's.

Either way the Marine Corps' fetish is physical fitness, and they don't really care what happens to broken candidates...
 

R.Dougie

Well-Known Member
I remember that, from what I understand the kid was actually in good shape, participated in sports and such, not some fat kid that just sat in the house all day. He just dropped and the recruiters did CPR but died on the spot, it was a quick notification the next day to stop all PRT's for those not in a pay status.
I recall that as I was stationed as an RDC during that time. It was during the final PRT before Battlestations. The young man's division was in my ship. It devastated everyone. It definitely came out of left field.
 

NavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
I recall that as I was stationed as an RDC during that time. It was during the final PRT before Battlestations. The young man's division was in my ship. It devastated everyone. It definitely came out of left field.
different death, this kid hadn't even left for OCS yet and was doing the run before going to OCS.
 

AULANI

Well-Known Member
Before commissioning in the Navy through OCS, I was also putting together a Marine OCS package and see who picked me up first. This was the Marine's solution: https://www.mcrc.marines.mil/Portals/95/Officer Programs/Other Forms/Hold Harmless Agreements.pdf?ver=2016-07-19-103100-733. I never understood why the Marines would run full PFTs and PT sessions for their candidates in the predawn hours while the Navy was so apprehensive. The Marines obviously have found a program that works and has been successfully implemented. Surely, the USN could too. Just have candidates/poolees sign hold harmless forms and run a PFT. If a candidate can't pass the crunches and/or push ups, don't let them do the run until they can for safety.
Rear Adm. Bernacchi addressed this issue at OCS during my candio phase. The indocs we were taking care of lost a third of their class due to IST failures. He basically said we can't have people trying to do a pre-screen PRT before they go to OCS because it would be a legal shit show if they died during the process.
 
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