Are stories of the SWO community valid?

[MasterBates]

Maybe we are just not bitter assholes..

I'll take the ass-chewing like a man if I earned it through action or inaction.

But I don't stand for just getting chewed for fun like the SWOs did it.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Community culture...it's impossible to say where it came from. I tend to think that Air is more egalitarian because everybody in the squadron knows if you're a good stick (good WSO, good on the scope, etc) or not, and at the end of the day, we're aviators first, ground job distant second. It's hard to put on airs as a DH if everyone knows you're at the bottom of the Air Wing in landing grades or completely lose your shit at the merge. SWOs seem to regard their 'day job' as far more important than shiphandling or seamanship...and what makes one Divvo better than another? Fuck if I know.

It's not Supply school that makes Chop life different. SWOSDOC used to be a pleasant six months in Newport before you even met your first ship. Didn't help.

 

[Seafort]

So as outsiders, how do you suggest we as SWO JOs change it? Or even better those that were SWOs and no longer are, what would have made you stay?

I was told to "be the revolution." How do I begin the revolution?

 

[BackOrdered]

SWOSDOC used to be a pleasant six months in Newport before you even met your first ship. Didn't help.

Well back to the drawing board.

So as outsiders, how do you suggest we as SWO JOs change it? Or even better those that were SWOs and no longer are, what would have made you stay?

I was told to "be the revolution." How do I begin the revolution?

You don't need to be an insider to treat people the way you would want to be treated.

 

[MasterBates]

As much as it's thrown out "Naval Officer First, Pilot Second"

That's only true, if you have the pilot skills (or possess the supreme scope-fu like Fester and other Hummoles) to do your job as well. Nobody cares if you are the best damned MWR Officer and Branch Officer in the history of Naval Aviation, if you can't get aboard safely or make the backeneders sick every single flight.

In my semi brief experience with Naval Aviation, I've noticed that communities where it's harder to rank pilots by pilot skills, seem to degenerate into swo-like minutiae dick waving contests. Never no where near as bad as SWO.. But it's there.

 

[Seafort]

You don't need to be an insider to treat people the way you would want to be treated.

I agree, and didn't say otherwise. Are you saying that SWOs have an institutional tendency to refuse to apply the golden rule? And that if a generation of JOs would make sure to observe this, the situation would improve or even work itself out completely?

The above are genuine questions. No sarcasm, no suspicion, no disbelief. I am really curious.

 

[jollygreen07]

There was a time, not too long ago, when I was pretty motivated about becoming a SWO.

I did my first class cruise on a CG out of Norfolk. I stood watches every day on the bridge, in engineering, and in CiC, sometimes multiple times a day. Meanwhile, the mids from canoe U slept all day and only showed up for meals and movies in the wardroom. Not being stereotypical. They really were shitbags.

I missed one all officers meeting because I stood the rev-watch and was exhausted and accidentally slept through it. I was dressed down by the XO for missing it in front of all the mids. Bad show on my part, but it was pretty much the only thing I missed the whole month on that ship.

I don't mean to sound like a whiny bitch, but I think my example just drives the point home. If life as a SWO sucks as a mid, I can't imagine how bad it's gotta be as a non-pinned JO. The ass-hattery just seems pointless.

Okay, back to my NATOPS.

 

[Uncle Fester]

More like, "Treat others the way you were treated as an ensign."

Every time we get into one of these threads - the SWO, and why he lives on hate and babies' hearts - the perky young SWOlets pipe up with some variation on that. 'Well, we'll just make up our mind not to be like that.'

Problem is, you're going to a ship to learn how to be an officer and leader (or at least, that's the theory). Who will you be learning that from? A few good dudes, plus many abusive assholes and sociopaths. It's not Divvos who cause SWO life to be miserable, it's the DH's, XO's and Captains. They make your daily life hell, and you eventually learn and pass on the abuse, whether you mean to or not. I refer you to Abused Child Syndrome. Read this article, replace 'child' with 'ensign' and 'parent' with 'ship's leadership'.

"A child naturally seeks approval from the role models in their life, even if it involves receiving negative attention. This is a direct result from years of abusive cycles in families that have not received any type of guidance. Any child that comes from this type of environment is literally programmed to become an abusive parent as this is the basic life skills that they have learned when it comes to dealing with children..."

 

[ChunksJR]

Perhaps you could offer guidance on this spatial reasoning portion of the ASTB then? :icon_mi_1

Yeah...don't fvck it up.

JK. Seriously, I used the "Top Gun hands" method. Take your pencil and hold it's point between your pointer and middle finger (representing "you" in the cockpit). Then, make the end of your desk (the "horizon") look like the picture by moving your hand around. Use your other hand to mimic the movements in a different plane (no pun intended) and that's your solution.

Also, I've heard that figuring everyting in one axis at a time (left or right wing down, nose pitch up (sky) or down (ground), etc) works.

Either way, get the gouge book and practice, practice, practice before taking the real test.

Then take the real test again, if req'd.

Good luck.

 

[BackOrdered]

I agree, and didn't say otherwise. Are you saying that SWOs have an institutional tendency to refuse to apply the golden rule? And that if a generation of JOs would make sure to observe this, the situation would improve or even work itself out completely?

A Junior Staff Officer's advice to an up and coming Junior SWO won't change an entire community. But most everything said here in this thread would be avoided if more people were mindful of the "golden rule". Ass chewings happen and still will, but I agree with Masterbates that they should happen for the right reasons.

 

[CAMike]

So as outsiders, how do you suggest we as SWO JOs change it? Or even better those that were SWOs and no longer are, what would have made you stay?

I was told to "be the revolution." How do I begin the revolution?

I think your thoughts are more or less on track. Historically, Big Navy has consistently been hands off on managing this type of unacceptable SWO mgmt behavior. Not only is the abuse tolerated by not taking real steps with actual consequences...well, you get the point. Why is this- It's way over my head - reality is what it is. Articles in Proceedings Mag are not going to actually change anything. By deduction, the long term solution must begin at the bottom.

Two ways to do this: (neither of which is very pleasant.)

1. JO's become incredibly disciplined and resilient to typical SWO abuse. Become emotions "ducks" (let the abuse run off the feathers) and do NOT repeat this unacceptable behavior towards their young as they get promoted. You SWO must remember the pains they endured when you were JO's and pass on this wisdom to the next group of young.

2. Take the chance and risk your long term career. Professionally discuss these behaviors in PUBLIC shipboard forums, (all officer meetings/department meetings) and promote the raising of the bar for SWOdom. Sell your peers and seniors on the fact that if they can all contribute to making positive behavioral mgmt changes, in time SWOdom will take on a new level of professionalism that they all work so hard for and deserve.

Smokin' dope therories? Not necessisarily. Big Navy has been mostly ineffective in making major improvements in this area for many years now.

Professional, Respectful REVOLUTION. Go get some PRR patches sewn onto the inside of your SWO jackets. Just begin!

 

[Mos]

You are wise beyond your years, padme.

I think you mean, padawan. Padme was the queen.

I am such a nerd.

 

[Jim123]

(abused child syndrome and learned behavior theories)

Reminds me of those bizarre "It is not OK to shake a baby" billboards. Maybe we need to put up "It is not OK to crap on your shipmates" billboards along Hampton Blvd, Mayport Road, and I5

/value added comment:
Truisms: every ship is different, there are good and bad people in every community, stereotypes don't just appear out of thin air.

 

[MasterBates]

NERDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SWO Bubba]

I've been a SWO for 15 years and after my current tour I'm headed to command under our XO/CO Fleet Up program. I could have service selected any community and I chose SWO....I'm proud to be a SWO and would unhesitatingly go down the same route if I started over.

The parochial and myopic veiws from the Aviators in this thread are about what I would expect and they are dissappointing - even the anecdotal comments from some of the HSL bubbas. Here's the deal - no matter what community you are in, roughly a third will be great, a third will be plugging along and a third will be more or less worthless. This is true in my community and I've seen it in every other community throughout multiple staff tours.

If the OP asked this question on Sailor Bob, you would see a lot of emotional responses and you would also see a lot of honest responses commenting on poor leadership. Many SWOs do a great job, many are getting by and many are proof of the Peter Principle (you get promoted to your highest level of incompetence).

Keeping a ship mission ready is tough work and the training, maintenance and administrative burdens imposed by Big Navy are immense. Decreasing dollars, increasing readiness requirements, lower manning and increased optempo adds stress to the environment and to be honest, many break - and not just SWOs. I've seen many aviator Captains in their deep-draft CO ride and Carrier COs and XOs rival the worst of our SWOs in terms of leadership. The main difference between the SWO and Aviation communities is that this crucible of leadership for SWOs starts on day one with an Ensign standing in front of their division. For Aviators, this crucible doesn't come until much later in their careers, usually in their Department Head tours. Take a hard look at the Maintenance organization in any squadron. As you peel back that onion, I bet money you'll start to see the stress of keeping aircraft flying impacting leadership - maybe directly from the Maintenance Officer or from senior enlisted.

I have served under a lot of great SWOs as well as a fare share of turds and I have learned much from both groups, filling the proverbial "good" and "bad" bags we learned from the Academy. There is no place for the bad examples of leadership mentioned in this thread and it starts from the top down, not the bottom up. I agree with Uncle Fester in that we can default to become products of our environments. And herein comes the most important leadership lesson senior officers of all flavors often miss: YOU MUST HAVE THE ABILITY TO SELF-EVALUATE AND ADJUST COURSE. Otherwise, you fall into patterns and end up being someone you never thought you would be.

Here are some other comments to specific posts:

- Ship handling training - we can absolutely do better. Completely agree and I also learned far more about shiphandling growing up sailing.

- O-4 through O-6 SWO retention as an indicator of SWO culture? You're smoking some strong stuff. Completely false, PM me if you want details.