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Another "praise the Raptor" article

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
What makes you think that F-22 doesn't have JHMCS and AIM-9X? And I'm gonna guess that the current Raptor pilots are seasoned aviators... I don't think he'll be the one walking home from that fight ;)

JHMCS and AIM-9X are sick, but the principles of BFM have remained the same. At least, that's what they're telling us here.


Cause they dont. Well, they dont have JHMCS, at least not yet they dont. Raptor driver on another site has confirmed this a number of times. Apparently it was one more thing that would have stretched out the OIC date even further and the decision was made they could live without it for now.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The F-22 brings some new tactics along with it. I remember getting info about it back when I worked in DC about the hunter/killer and data-uplink functions that the new avionics were going to run. It was pretty neat, for lack of a better way to put it. One of the Super Hornet guys said when they ran some of the tests it was no fun; they would fly around looking for the F-22 and all of a sudden would hear, "XXX, your dead."

Stealth paired with high bandwidth and realtime (dare I even say useful) networking is a great concept for Air to Air combat, and allows for some cool integration.

As for actual man to man dogfighting, I don't know what sort or real advantages it has. But the stuff they were talking about for pure kills in the sky was pretty impressive.

Do you honestly think any enemy worth their salt is going to fight the way we want them to fight in a future ACM engagement? They are sitting and watching all of our tactics and figuring out ways to defeat them as we speak. We are the biggest baddest guy on the block now and everyone who thinks they might go up against is training for that day right now.

I am not one of these guys who is scared witless about China or who thinks that the Iranians are going to suprise us with their new superplane http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/images/saeqeh-pic1.jpg, but we have to face the reality that our wonder-planes aren't going to defeat every third world pilot because our planes have more processing power.

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is the VFC guys in Fallon who constantly kill off a few Air Wing guys during work-ups. Flying 40 year-old budget fighters, they invariably seem to be able to knock off a few of the best the Navy has to offer, repeatedly. Granted, they do this for a living and have some tricks up their sleeve......but who is to say that Ahmed, Sirajul or Cheng won't have the same advantages when flying in their own backyards?

Another real life example that I just remembered was something that happened in the first Gulf War. Even with an E-2, an E-3, several CAP's (including an F-14 one) and surface ships, two Iraqi Mirage F-1's were able to slip through all of that and make it into the Northern Persian Gulf unmolested. The only thing between them an Dahran was one lucky Saudi F-15 pilot who bagged both of them. That screw up had a lot more to do with poor coordination between the USAF and USN, but it happened and could happen again.

The point of all of this? Don't rely too much on your technology or it will come up and bite you in the a@#. Just ask the F-117 pilot who spent a few hours in Serbia on a cross-country hike because the USAF planners were stupid and used technology as a crutch to make up for poor planning.
 

SemperGumbi

Just a B guy.
pilot
Do you honestly think any enemy worth their salt is going to fight the way we want them to fight in a future ACM engagement? They are sitting and watching all of our tactics and figuring out ways to defeat them as we speak. We are the biggest baddest guy on the block now and everyone who thinks they might go up against is training for that day right now.

Yes, but that is true about ANY technology we come up with. Why not try to keep advancing our technology?

I will never claim our technology makes us unfailable.
But if we don't keep pressing we will be left behind.

I gues my only point was that we are trying to go in new ACM directions with F-22 and friends. "They" have been sitting and watching our older tactics for much longer...
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Yes, but that is true about ANY technology we come up with. Why not try to keep advancing our technology?

I will never claim our technology makes us unfailable.
But if we don't keep pressing we will be left behind.


I gues my only point was that we are trying to go in new ACM directions with F-22 and friends. "They" have been sitting and watching our older tactics for much longer...

Agree, but we should not become enamoured with it and use it as a crutch.

As for new tactics, some of 'them' already are there. One country that comes to mind is Sweden. Why worry about those meatball eating blondies? They are trying to sell their Gripens, that have the latest and greatest in data-links (far better than Link-16), to anyone.
 

Zilch

This...is...Caketown!
Everyone talks about sexy Swedish women, but whenever I see that Saab commercial with the Gripen...Well, it is sexy, too.
 

pilot_man

Ex-Rhino driver
pilot
JHMCS and AIM-9X are sick, but the principles of BFM have remained the same. At least, that's what they're telling us here.

Actually Fly, the combination of those two jewels of technology does change the principals of BFM.

As for technology, we can never get enough of it, and cannot fall behind our foes.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Actually Fly, the combination of those two jewels of technology does change the principals of BFM.

That's why I sad "that's what they tell us" :) My experience with BFM is uh... limited at best. I won't ever claim to be an expert there. "I have no idea what's going on... lift vector on and pull!"

As for technology, we can never get enough of it, and cannot fall behind our foes.

Amen.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Raptor arrival at Kadena...belated

The 27th Fighter Squadron from Langley Air Force Base, VA was tasked with the first F-22 overseas deployment to Kadena AFB with a planned stop at Hickam AFB, HI with all 12 aircraft arriving without any issues. Then the fun began.

After departing Hickam AFB, the lead flight discovered a software issue affecting the navigation system when the Raptors crossed the International Date Line and forcing the squadron to return to Hickam.

Several days later the issue was corrected and the aircraft continued on to Kadena although two Raptors diverted to Wake Island when one had a generator problem. Eventually, eight Raptors arrived at Kadena on 18 Feb joining two that preceded them almost 10 days after departure from Virginia.

See: http://www.f-22raptor.com/news_view.php?nid=266&vo=
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why would a navigation issue affect a whole flight if it was just on one jet, especially if they were being dragged by tankers which I would presume was happening? We flew with a couple of Prowlers that had some navigation 'issues' across the Pacific, what wusses.......:confused:
 

JustAGuy

Registered User
pilot
...what wusses.......:confused:

Now, generally, Air Farce weenies are all the same, but....

The 27th Raptor guys, as a whole, were and are the coolest Air Force guys you will ever meet. They are as close to being Naval Aviators as one can get considering they joined the wrong service. And the one guy that got a ride in a Super Hornet was utterly amazed at what the jet could do. That should tell you something.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Why would a navigation issue affect a whole flight if it was just on one jet, especially if they were being dragged by tankers which I would presume was happening? We flew with a couple of Prowlers that had some navigation 'issues' across the Pacific, what wusses.......:confused:

That said (and as much as I disdain the AF), I can envision a scenario where they would have to detach a section due to an EP (like they subsequently did), where they would want both jets to have a good nav system striking out alone to a divert field with only one chance to get it right. Then again, they could have detached a light division to alleviate that problem. At any rate, with as much as those jets cost, perhaps better to err on the side of caution for their first transpac.

Brett
 

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
Why would a navigation issue affect a whole flight if it was just on one jet, especially if they were being dragged by tankers which I would presume was happening? We flew with a couple of Prowlers that had some navigation 'issues' across the Pacific, what wusses.......:confused:

Appearently it wasn't a problem with just one, it was all of them that crossed the dateline

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041054

http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10434
 
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