Airline transition, Where to?

[Harrier Dude]

A4s post is the exact kind of information that I've been looking for. I've joined several other forums and am still in the lurking stage, but I feel like one of the newbies that wants to know what % get jets.

Actually, since I'm 4 years from retirement, I'm probably more like one of the highschoolers that wants to know what % get jets. Right now I'm debating how best to prepare my logbooks for the FAA/ATP/interview process and trying to find out how I'm going to get/keep myself current during the period just prior to getting out. Any advice for someone that's 4 years out?

 

[MasterBates]

Yeah.. Use the search button

 

[HooverPilot]

Thanks for putting this out there. FI.com argues too much for me to participate so I brought over here for a look at from those I know & trust!

The spreadsheet was done by me this summer and originally posted in a thread at APC.com in August. I posted the jpegs above at FI.com yesterday.

The purpose of doing the sheet was to compare it to a spreadsheet I saw about 8 years ago (pre 9/11) that showed it was SIGNIFICANTLY more beneficial to leave the military up until year 17. I was interested to see how things looked with a current pay scale.

No, it doesn't account for pay raises and other things that my crystal ball doesn't show very well. There are sh*tloads of assumptions because there have to be. Both in the military and at the airline there will be pay that will be more than the minimum, but I wasn't looking to do a "best case", I was looking for a middle-of-the-road case.

I also had to just throw a stake in the ground and put something in concrete with a multitude of assumptions, otherwise it would be impossible to make a comparison (like a P-sub-S chart that is only good at a specific altitude, configuration, and fuel weight on the mythical "standard" day). The fact that those numbers aren't *exact* isn't important...it's the relative income that *is* important...and the picture that is painted is that the post-military contract income through forced airline retirement is pretty damn near the same -- and this is at one of the current "industry leading" pay rates.

If anyone wants the Excel file so they can change it up, add things, whatever, I'd be happy to email it to them and would be interested to see their results.

 

[Frumby]

Numbers are a little off on the spread sheet.

6th year FO at SWA is $160 give or take 5. About 65 hours/month

1st (year 7 right now)year Capt at SWA is $200 give or take 5. About 65/hours per month

I would never steer anyone from active duty but the stress level is 5 times less then at the airlines. Of course, that depends on the company, but it does provide a more quality lifestyle. I have more headaches as a reservist then as a airline pilot. Of course, the industry in itself is a headache and your UNCLE always provides job security but everything is about risk.

Don't listen to BeanFighter, no one as ugly as him can have that good of a job!! Hey Bean, I think I'm overnighting in SJC in two weeks.....dinner?

Semper Fly,

Frumby

 

[A4sForever]

....1st (year 7 right now)year Capt at SWA is $200 give or take 5. About 65/hours per month...

That's outstanding pay for flying a FLUFF.

The best I did flyin' the heavy metal internationally was @ $245/hour. More during CRAF to be sure, but that doesn't count in the greater scheme of things. We can't have a CRAF flyin' airline war everyday .... can we??

 

[HackerF15E]

Numbers are a little off on the spread sheet.

6th year FO at SWA is $160 give or take 5. About 65 hours/month

1st (year 7 right now)year Capt at SWA is $200 give or take 5. About 65/hours per month

I took all my pay rates, Capt upgrade time, and hourly guarantee from here:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/southwest.html

The spreadsheet info was current when I made it this last August, and I have not updated it since then. I have sent copies to a couple dudes from the forum here, so perhaps they will update/change/improve and share their results.

 

[FrankTheTank]

I'll throw out some real numbers: (Gross Income)

Year '04 (Navy & Fedex) [0-4> 11yrs, Base Housing]
69,5XX

Year '05 (Fedex & Selres) [12 days AT, 48 IDTs]
74,7XX

Year '06 (Fedex & Selres) [12 days AT & 4 IDTs]
135,3XX

Year '07 (Fedex Only) [IRR]
167,5XX

APC shows pay rates but there are many other unaccounted for factors like Training, Trip Overage, International Overrides, and Per Diem...

 

[MasterBates]

So basically, 3 years in at FedSex, you are making twice what a dirty hinge is making (bonus notwithstanding) and in real terms, about ~50% more when tax advantages and BAH are factored in?

 

[FrankTheTank]

Forgot this VERY good website as a source for info... However you must pay $10 bucks a year and have a civilian rating (that is how they verify/moderate the enchilada so as to prevent the flightinfo degradation).

http://www.propilotworld.com/

 

[corvairdroptop]

I made a new version of the spreadsheet, changing none of the original, underlying assumptions but adding a couple of points I mentioned earlier:

1. Tax implication of allowances
2. Time-adjustment of salary

The short version of the story is that I came to a similar, but more pronounced conclusion. The original spreadsheet gave the military about 5% pay advantage. The NPV, however, resulted in an advantage of about 15-20% for the military. The flight bonus really comes into play, as does the fact that you'll spend a couple of lean years at an airline. Sheet is being sent back to Hacker.

3. SELRES
I made a fourth scenario for SELRES. This can be customized to the individual by plugging in the expected SELRES pay and retirement. On my spreadsheet, these are all zeros so the “Airline” numbers are the same as “Airline plus SELRES.” Ready to be customized – all of the equations are entered.

Not changed:
Any assumptions about what the airline is paying you throughout your time with them. These are, of course, customizable.


Assumptions…the boring part…though none of them have a major effect:

1) Taxes. These assumptions are nearly negligible, especially given the middle-class tax brackets. The assumptions are listed in the newest spreadsheet -- if this doesn't describe you, it may make the difference between an extra car wash per year. The general advantage of BAH/BAS over the airlines, however, is very real and now included in the sheet.

2) Interest rates are estimated at 5% for the entire time period (a fairly standard, conservative assumption). It's adjustable on the sheet -- most people are probably better off picking a number closer to their mortgage rate or whatever their private retirement accounts are earning. This had only a very small influence, demonstrating that the choices are rather resistant to interest rates (that’s simply the way these particular career paths worked out…law school would be a very different situation).

 

[Frumby]

Numbers are a little off on the spread sheet.

6th year FO at SWA is $160 give or take 5. About 65 hours/month

1st (year 7 right now)year Capt at SWA is $200 give or take 5. About 65/hours per month

I would never steer anyone from active duty but the stress level is 5 times less then at the airlines. Of course, that depends on the company, but it does provide a more quality lifestyle. I have more headaches as a reservist then as a airline pilot. Of course, the industry in itself is a headache and your UNCLE always provides job security but everything is about risk.

Don't listen to BeanFighter, no one as ugly as him can have that good of a job!! Hey Bean, I think I'm overnighting in SJC in two weeks.....dinner?

Semper Fly,

Frumby

Maybe I was misunderstood:

6th year FO $160,000/year at 65/hours per month
7th year CAPT $200,000/year at 65 hours per month

Take into account that I live in domicile and still fly in the reserves. The spreadsheets are great gouge but I'm just giving you the reality of what I made my 6th and 7th year. My 8th year is looking like $195,000 but I've only averaged 44 hours/month. Spent more time working for my favorite Uncle then flying for SWA. That pay does not include my reserve paycheck.

Semper Fly

 

[A4sForever]

....there are many roads to the top of Mt. Fuji.

Here's one @ 7 o'clock: