As a transitioning military aviator, which airlines show the most promise? I know Fedex and UPS seem like the logical choices right now, but they won't be players in my particular case due to timing (don't have the heavy int'l for UPS and can't wait for Fedex to hire again). I like SWA and Delta seems headed in the right direction, but I would love to hear what those who have "been there, done that" think. Any input is really appreciated.
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Airline transition, Where to?
- Thread starter bluto
- Start date
That is a very open ended question.. Lacks details..
Like:
Where do you want to live?
Wife/Kids?
Selres or not?
Do you have the type rating?
Do you have an ATP?
Have you looked at corporate? etc.....
Food for thought--> UPS no longer has the overwater req, Don't just target one (Get qualifed/apply to many), You can quit at anytime in the civ world, Just cause you start at CAL, DELTA, etc doesn't mean you won't finish up somewhere else, Talk to you buds that have moved on and get them to show you their pay stubs, schedules and work rules...
Like:
Where do you want to live?
Wife/Kids?
Selres or not?
Do you have the type rating?
Do you have an ATP?
Have you looked at corporate? etc.....
Food for thought--> UPS no longer has the overwater req, Don't just target one (Get qualifed/apply to many), You can quit at anytime in the civ world, Just cause you start at CAL, DELTA, etc doesn't mean you won't finish up somewhere else, Talk to you buds that have moved on and get them to show you their pay stubs, schedules and work rules...
UPS doesn't have the international heavy time requirement anymore. They have had a hiring window open for awhile. I am not sure if it is closed yet.
Fedex- still a popular choice, but not hiring.
SWA- No interviews until next spring. You will need a type rating to get to the front of the line for interviews.
Continental and Delta are both hiring strong and their employees seem pretty happy.
NWA and United are both hiring as well. They were once great companies but their employees are ready to burn them down now. People are still applying since they figure this is rock bottom and it's only up from here. I guess US Air just opened up and I would put them in this boat as well.
Jet Blue is hiring.
There are others like spirit, frontier, etc. I looked into them but their minimums are too high for fighter types.
The regionals are desperate for folks, but their compensation is insulting coming from the salaries we are used to. However, if you need to build your time up I wouldn't rule them out.
Also, don't get too fixated on the 121 world. Their are a lot of other great aviation jobs out there.
Huggy
Fedex- still a popular choice, but not hiring.
SWA- No interviews until next spring. You will need a type rating to get to the front of the line for interviews.
Continental and Delta are both hiring strong and their employees seem pretty happy.
NWA and United are both hiring as well. They were once great companies but their employees are ready to burn them down now. People are still applying since they figure this is rock bottom and it's only up from here. I guess US Air just opened up and I would put them in this boat as well.
Jet Blue is hiring.
There are others like spirit, frontier, etc. I looked into them but their minimums are too high for fighter types.
The regionals are desperate for folks, but their compensation is insulting coming from the salaries we are used to. However, if you need to build your time up I wouldn't rule them out.
Also, don't get too fixated on the 121 world. Their are a lot of other great aviation jobs out there.
Huggy
Bluto -
Just to put your question in perspective -
If you had asked 30 years ago - Pan Am and Braniff were good choices.
25 years ago - Eastern.
People's express was the "New darling" of the airlines (kind of like JB now)
TWA was a great place to work for a while.
10 years ago, if you got hired by United, you were quite a happy camper.
See a pattern?
Here is my advice if you want to fly for an airline. Figure out where you want to live and then pick your airline based on that. All have their ups and downs, but the main thing in the end is quality of life. In the airline business quality of life = time at home. If you live in/near your base, you can sit reserve and be home more then 1/2 of each month.
Don't chase aircraft, contracts, or routes. Those all change.
Feel free to PM me if you you have questions.
Nose
Which major shows the most promise? The one that hires you.
Apply to them all. Take every interview. Accept the first job and if it's not the one you really wanted, keep applying and interviewing. You can always change jobs.
It's all cyclic. Since 9/11/2001 the best job stability and pay has been FedEx, UPS and Southwest. But pre-9/11 you had pilots leaving these airlines to go to Delta, AA and United. It's all a crap shoot. Whoever is on top now will be on the bottom latter. The key is to get in and get that seniority number. Further, it is the beginning of a new industry wide hiring cycle. You want to get a job now, not at the end of the cycle.
One of the keys to getting hired is staying current. If you don't get a major interview/job offer right away - go to a regional. The pay and work rules suck but it keeps you current and it gets 121 time on your resume.
Apply to them all. Take every interview. Accept the first job and if it's not the one you really wanted, keep applying and interviewing. You can always change jobs.
It's all cyclic. Since 9/11/2001 the best job stability and pay has been FedEx, UPS and Southwest. But pre-9/11 you had pilots leaving these airlines to go to Delta, AA and United. It's all a crap shoot. Whoever is on top now will be on the bottom latter. The key is to get in and get that seniority number. Further, it is the beginning of a new industry wide hiring cycle. You want to get a job now, not at the end of the cycle.
One of the keys to getting hired is staying current. If you don't get a major interview/job offer right away - go to a regional. The pay and work rules suck but it keeps you current and it gets 121 time on your resume.
Went to a bunch of reservist airline pilots that presented a "career seminar for those who want to go airline" at NSE that said, if you want to go to an airline, stay in. If you don't want to stay in, go reserves. If you don't want to go reserves, than try the airlines, but keep a second job/hobby to "hedge" your bets...
That's what they said...but I'm just a silly rotorhead.
~D
That's what they said...but I'm just a silly rotorhead.
~D
The first question to ask them is 'Where do they work?'
The second is 'Where do they live?'
They airline gig isn't for everyone but a lot depends on those 2 questions!
All of them agreed...and they worked for all the major companies...at least 10 different airlines were represented...and they mostly live in and around the PCola/Atlanta/Houston/Cinncinati/INSERT HUB HERE areas.
Yeah, they were all reservists, but averaged ~4,000 hrs between them. That's wisdom you don't F with.
So, i put in my ACCP paperwork today...despite the large increase in helo bubba hiring (not big pay, but good work).
~D
That's what I hear, either live at your Hub or live at your reserve site. Avoid the double commute. As for me, right now, it looks like either Delta or SWA (only two who have offered a job). That's what drove me to post this thread, it seems like such a crap shoot. SWA seems great now, but I know a bunch of guys who left SWA (and Fedex for that matter) for apparent greener pastures not even 8 years ago. Don't even mention Pan Am, Braniff, etc. How do you choose if you have a choice, although limited as it is? I could live in a Delta or SWA hub and commute for reserves. Don't really care about int'l, etc (for now) but potential 30 years of mostly domestic sounds kind of painful. What are your opinions of these two companies? How much do you value having an opportunity to upgrade, change routes, etc?
WheelsUpHeelsUp
Banned
Standby to start at the bottom, rock bottom if you go commercial. Piedmont, American Eagle, United Express you know what I'm saying. Having flown with many SAR pilots that were full time with the airlines that's how many of them started before getting picked up by the 'big boys". I was shocked, they also worked for slave wages.
Either way, good luck.
Either way, good luck.
We are assuming Bluto has the mins to enter the game at the major level..
Bluto what is your background?
When I got out FEDEX, SWA and Airtran were the only ones hiring.. Oh JetBlue but there was no way I was going to work in NYC.. So my decision was easy and I could never fly people.. Just having 3 other dudes in the Hoov was enough for me...
he's Marine Hornets
The one that hires you. Believe it.
Seriously ... one thing is a constant in the airline business: change.
One day you're "up" and living large ... the next day your company has crashed and burned in the marketplace and you are looking for another job. Apply to them all --- I had a folder from A to Z (literally .. American to Zantop) as did most of my airline bound Amigos ... I worked for 3 airlines and was "hired" by 3 others but declined.
You can be picky on domicile, aircraft, international/domestic AFTER you get the job --- you ain't "good enough" to pick and choose when you're on the outside lookin' in ...
I can still remember the eager anticipation of our next contract --- $345K for left seat on the Whale was the best guess based on market trends and competitors pay scales --- and then the 9/11 bump in the road came along and once again, everything changed.
But change is the constant. And fate ...
I'm fortunate, my background in Marine Hornets and I've already been hired by SWA and Delta, with many apps still out there. I know I'm done with AD, but intend to remain in the Reserves. My big concern is the general state of the commercial airline industry. Is it even worth pursuing as a career with so much instability? I know I need to get on now while I'm still current, but I also plan on finishing an MBA, starting something else on the side and staying in the Reserves. It just seems with the depressed wages, persistent merger rumors and continuing aggressive competition from too many competitors, that picking a winner in this industry is a long odds crap shoot. This posts desire is to hear what those of you who have done this for a while recommend for us soon to be nugget big iron drivers?
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
If you have been hired by SWA and Delta, you at least have choices.
Do they both have Hubs where you want to live? Or do you live near your reserve site? Heck, if reserve and hub are colocated, that would be cool.
Do they both have Hubs where you want to live? Or do you live near your reserve site? Heck, if reserve and hub are colocated, that would be cool.