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Airline forums?
- Thread starter bunk22
- Start date
Bunk,
I read airliners.net and jetcareers.com. Watch out for the jaded people on there though, there are some disgruntled employees that are all about doom and gloom.
HD
Airliners.net is decent, but as HD mentioned, there are a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about and it tends to devolve into a giant pissing match at times. I think it might be more useful as a way to gather current news about the airline industry rather than gouge on becoming an airline pilot.
flightinfo.com, jetcareers.com and airliners.net are full of idiots, a-holes and jaded characters. There are also a lot of wanna-bes giving advice on all three and you don't really have a way to tell who is who except by the stupidity of their answers. Of the three, flightinfo is probably the better one.
However, if your bud has a commercial, ATP or FE license and is willing to spend $10 bucks - tell him to go to propilotworld.com. It has all the guys that were tired of the BS from those other boards. The requirement for at least a commercial license keeps the rift-raft out too. There is a good mix of prior military, military reserve, corporate, fractional, regional and major ailrline pilots that are more than willing to help.
However, if your bud has a commercial, ATP or FE license and is willing to spend $10 bucks - tell him to go to propilotworld.com. It has all the guys that were tired of the BS from those other boards. The requirement for at least a commercial license keeps the rift-raft out too. There is a good mix of prior military, military reserve, corporate, fractional, regional and major ailrline pilots that are more than willing to help.
None of those forums are going to help.... The REAL gouge is in the TRAINING COMMAND.. Those doing the airline thing (the reservists) and those getting hired to do the airline thing (getting out)... There is some good info on those sites after you sift through the BS but ultimately nothing is better than word of mouth.. Networking!!!!
Concur about propilotworld.com. It's a new site (relatively), seems to be very professional, no ads, etc. Worth checking out. You can get limited access without paying to see if it's worth the cash...
Bunk-
Are you a 20 year kind of guy or waiting to see how the chips fall? I've got to decide about taking the bonus myself in the near future. Of course making major decisions while deployed probably isn't the best bet, but then again I am in Bahrain...
I agree networking is key. propilotworld.com is good for this. I've met at least 10 or 12 pilots from there on various RONs over the last couple of months and this has started getting me contacts in the corporate aviation world. I also got my current Citation gig courtesy of a pilot I met through that web site.
I also fly as a contract pilot on a 727, a job I got via a former Navy bud who hooked me up and a fellow Hawaiian furloughee recently got me an interview offer from Evergreen (which I turned down for various reasons).
Other than the low paying entry level regional airline or corporate jobs, building a good network is key. Right now it is extremely difficult to get a into either a major airline or good corporate job without a referral from one of more current employees (it take about 5 for FedEx right now).
What a good site like propilotworld.com does is allow you to understand what the employers are looking for as far a qualifications and experience. Plus (as in my case fro corporate flying) it can help you to start building your network.
As Boom Boom said, the place for current military pilots to start is the Training Command and Reserve squadrons. VR squadrons especially are awesome for this. But if you're not around a VT or VR squadron, a place like propilotworld.com is a start.
Also, these sites will help you figure out where there is hiring that does not need an internal recommendation - Net Jets (fractional) is one that come to mind.
Keep track of your buds that leave the Navy and get flying jobs. They are the ones that will be the most helpful.
5 years can make a world of difference in the airline game. Hiring is very cyclic. It is starting to pick up again and in 5 years it might be flat. The big exception to the whole networking thing is when the majors are hiring big time. I think that is right around the corner (next 2 years). At the major airline level Southwest, FedEx, UPS, Continental, Jet Blue, Alaska, Frontier and Air Tran are all hiring now. Delta (assuming they stay independent and do not merger with U.S. Airways), United and Northwest will have all their furloughed pilots offered recall by next summer and will be hiring by the end of 2007. The only majors that won't be hiring in the near future are U.S. Airways and American.
There are also a lot of lesser known airlines flying large equipment that are hiring now: Evergreen, Gemini, Omni, World and Southern Air to name a few. Plus a lot of U.S. pilots are getting hired at Cathay Pacific and Emirates. Further crew leasing companies like Hawaiian Aviation are putting U.S. pilots in the cockpits of JAL and ANA.
As long as the retirement age stays at age 60 (and I think it will for at least a few more years - we will know this by the end of December), airline hiring is going to increase significantly over the next few years. Seniority is everything and getting in at the beginning of the hiring cycle is key. I know this hard lesson for a fact from my Hawaiian experience. I was at the end of their last cycle and I'm still on furlough with at least another year to go. Guys hired a year before me are back. But I loved Hawaiian and it was always my first choice of airline. So instead of trying for another airline I'm flying the Citation & 727 while waiting for my recall (unless Southwest or FedEx call....).
So 5 years can make a huge difference.
Of course this is just my opinion. Wink, Boom Boom, Frumby, A4s and the other airline pilots on here may think I'm AFU.......
HAL is spot on as usual with the airline info...
More perspective:
Marine #1 put off interview w/ FEDEX by 2 weeks- Fellow Marine (now Navy)#2 interviewed 2 weeks prior.. #2 is an LCA now in the back of the 727.. #1 spent 2 1/2 years in the pool waiting for a class date.
When I started, a good friend had an opportunity to interview, he put it off due to starting a new job.. He started class over 800 numbers behind me.. Out of 4800 pilots 2 years made that big of a difference..
Where SENIORITY is everything, every day lost counts and can never get back.. And you don't know if you will be able to retire in a flying billet which can make currency a big problem.. Fly in the reserves so then you still get to play but do so with much less drama. My 2 cents worth...
And don't listen to all that bonus is big bucks crap and you can't find the same benefits on the outside.. I make well over 6 figures, work only 2 weeks a month, pay $90 a month (plus $20 copays) for the family to go to whatever doctor we want, have an A plan (for now), B Plan and 401 K retirement funds, can live wherever I want (Choose in Domicile so I'm gone 5-6 days a month), get 90 hours vacation, 72 hours sick... I don't drill anymore but with some good use of military leave, you can really have a nice schedule..
But I wouldn't go anywhere other than FEDEX, UPS or Corporate..
More perspective:
Marine #1 put off interview w/ FEDEX by 2 weeks- Fellow Marine (now Navy)#2 interviewed 2 weeks prior.. #2 is an LCA now in the back of the 727.. #1 spent 2 1/2 years in the pool waiting for a class date.
When I started, a good friend had an opportunity to interview, he put it off due to starting a new job.. He started class over 800 numbers behind me.. Out of 4800 pilots 2 years made that big of a difference..
Where SENIORITY is everything, every day lost counts and can never get back.. And you don't know if you will be able to retire in a flying billet which can make currency a big problem.. Fly in the reserves so then you still get to play but do so with much less drama. My 2 cents worth...
And don't listen to all that bonus is big bucks crap and you can't find the same benefits on the outside.. I make well over 6 figures, work only 2 weeks a month, pay $90 a month (plus $20 copays) for the family to go to whatever doctor we want, have an A plan (for now), B Plan and 401 K retirement funds, can live wherever I want (Choose in Domicile so I'm gone 5-6 days a month), get 90 hours vacation, 72 hours sick... I don't drill anymore but with some good use of military leave, you can really have a nice schedule..
But I wouldn't go anywhere other than FEDEX, UPS or Corporate..
HAL is wise beyond his years. Read and heed ... all you airline wanna-be's ....
First off, thanks for the info gents. Good stuff.
When I came in this military, I was all about only serving what I had to and punching. Well the bunk didn't play his cards right, besides it was 03 and the airlines weren't really in hiring frenzy, I didn't have my finances straight enough to go the civilian route. So I took the 5 year bonus. I just got to P-cola for my 3 year, post DH shore duty orders. When they're up, I'll have 16.5 years in so retirement is the name of the game. Problem is, staying current in the last 3.5 years if I decide to go airlines. Might actually work better if I don't make O-5 next year or the year after, I could stay right here and maybe roll into another flying job at TRAWING 5 or 6. My goal right now is Southwest. My old skipper is now 4-0, in getting 4 of his prior JO's hired. Whether his letter of recomendation helped or not, his record so far looks good. He's in his 6th year at Southwest and has nothing but praise for them. His recommendation is to go reserves at the end of this tour to finish the 20 since SW will supposedly still be in their hiring boom. I'm just not sure what to do right now.
Not sure??? What you (and he) said is what you do ... for now. In 2-3 years??? Maybe different. Probably different.
Welcome to the Wonderful World of the Airlines....
