Airframe

[Greaper007]

Hi guys, first time poster but long time lurker. I've just graduated from college and I'm now pretty certain that I'm going the Marine Corp route. I'm from a military family (father was an F-14 pilot), and I know all about officer first pilot second. What I'm curious about is if anyone knows what my chances of flying fixed wing vs. rotor. Honestly, I don't want to fly Helicopters. I plan on eventually flying as an airline pilot. I'm fine with flying any fixed wing craft though (even though my first choice would be F-18s). I know a lot of people are going to tell me that I'm going to the wrong branch if this is my desire. However, I know that I'm not the only one that feels this way. So if anyone knows the current stats it would be really helpful. I just want to know what I'm getting into before I sign up for anything.

 

[EODDave]

Right now, the Corps is hurting for Jet guys. Everything changes with time, but if you go Marine jets you'll be a hornet or harrier guy.

 

[Greaper007]

Thank you for the information.

 

[46Driver]

I've said this before, why exactly do you want to go airlines? If you think its pay, think again... We have guys here at EUCOM who left both American and United to go on active duty - they are making more as O-5's with flight pay than they were as 767 First Officers. And then there is the fact that pensions are being cut to the bone and will likely go away over the next few decades.

 

[Dustball]

I can second what 46 driver just said. My father is a Captain at UsAirways with 20 years seniority and has seen his pay reduced 50% and his pension reduced 90% already and there is talk of taking the rest away as well. All the major carriers are reorganizing right now to become more like SouthWest and JetBlue. The days where commerical pilots are clearing over 200K is over. And as far as job security if he didn't have 20 years seniority he would be looking for a new job, he is only about 20 people away from being droped back down to first officer on his airframe. Why anyone would want to go to the airlines is beyond me.

 

[46Driver]

Take another look at United, American, and soon to be Delta's payscales. Then imagine what it is like with 50,000 pilots fighting for the maybe 500 jobs per year at UPS and FedEx (and remember UPS hasn't hired in a while.)

 

[Greaper007]

Hmmmm, My father has been at Southwest for 20+ years and he just recieved a pay raise. Not to mention his stock options. Granted it's a crap shoot, he got in with Southwest right when they started expanding. Now he's reaping the benefits. Besides, the Airline Industry will be extremely healthy when we all finish our commitments. From my understanding it's very top heavy right now and with the mandatory 60 year old retirement that just spells an influx of jobs. Right now the Airlines are still recovering from 9-11. Once they get back on track they should be as good as ever. People aren't going to stop traveling by air. In fact they're traveling by air more than ever.

 

[Punk]

well, its about time that airline pilots took a paycut, they were making obscene amounts of money. Anyways, most airline pilots are living well beyond their means anyways (visit Peachtree City, GA where almost everyone is a Delta pilot/employee). Hopefully, Delta pilots will wakeup and take their much deserved paycut w/o the CEO having to declare bankruptcy to void their contracts. Prima donnas.

My father's been in the airlines for 30+ years. First for Pan Am (may they rest in peace), to now Delta. Its all a cycle. It'll rebound in 8-10 years. It always does.

 

[bcw]

Punk,
I hear you on the PTC thing. I am not going to miss checking out Delta pilots in rental aircraft.

 

[46Driver]

Delta had a few billion in the bank a few years ago to float them through this.... It is NOT 911. What has happened is several things according to the Financial Times (London). The big thing is that Southwest and the other LCC's have gone from 5% of revenue passenger miles in 1987 to 25% of the market today - and some estimates have them going to 50% of the market within a decade. To compund this problem are 2 other things: 1 is that the internet has made ticket pricing transparent and 2) fuel cost have risen tremendously. Don't think the fuel cost is just OPEC - the problem is one of demand (i.e., China and India are both industrializing and with that comes a thirst for petroleum.)

With this surplus of airlines and seats, the majors have lost the ability of pricing power. You have probably noted that load rates are extremely high - and yet most of the legacy airlines are still losing money. That is because yield is down, and can not be raised.

I am gonna disagree with y'all who think this is just a cyclical change for the reasons outlined above. It is a revolutionary change as the airline industry becomes more like Wal-Mart. The customer demands one thing - low prices - and whichever airline can control its biggest expense (labor) is the one that is going to grow in the future.

 

[phrogdriver]

If your dream is to be a bus driver, why isn't your first choice C-130s?

 

[lugginjugs]

Let's discuss the "I don't want xxx airframe issue". I fully appreciate your honesty. If you get accepted, if you get an air contract, you will be the envy of a good many Americans. If you graduate primary and DON'T get jets and get a jet powered helicopter instead - how are you going to feel? There are a bunch of 46s that beg to be driven. You sound like one of those lost souls who squeaks through OCS, TBS, and arrives at the end of Primary with an ulcer a week before selection - only to find out you didn't get what you "always dreamed of" and now you're crossing the street to South Park with an "I got screwed by the system/God/XO/CO/IP/Sim instructor/guy who checks out my SV-2" attitude. Growing up military you should know things don't always go as planned or even for the better. You will have to play the hand you're dealt. Do not join the Marine Corps if you can't handle the random outcome. We need killers who can deal with the harsh reality of the world. The least of your problems should be second choice B billets, third choice duty station, and third choice airframe. I'm damned proud to be a Marine because of the company in which I serve and I know how lucky I am I get to fly - even if right now it's just the T-34C (she's all I ever dreamed of). I still have to earn my wings - that's a proud day for anyone in any frame. Just once I want to hear someone write in and say "Yeah I have a preference, I like jets (or helos or props), but I'd like to fly Marine and I'll be happy with whatever they give me. It isn't about you and a jet. If you want sleek, fast, and sexy buy a sportscar (paint it matte gray if you want). Guaranteed you can get what you want.

 

[Greaper007]

Hey Lug, I agree with what you're saying to an extent. However, all I asked about were my chances of getting jets. I'm not trying to be a prima dona, I'm only being honest. I'm not afraid to say that I've talked to recruiters with every branch and asked them all the same question. I've heard rumors about slightly better chances of getting jets in the Marine Corps as compared to say the Air Force (5% of graduates was what I was quoted). Whatever I chose I'll serve well. However, I won't be ruled by bull**** mystism that says I shouldn't ask questions about major deccisions in my life. Furthermore, remember that assumptions are the mother of all ****ups.

 

[reapergm]

You guys get PAID TO FLY for a living.... PAID!!!! TO DO WHAT YOU LOVE!!! Damn.. get me a friggen seat!!! Who cares.. being a bus driver is a damn good job compared to the rest of the world. Even the corporate guys, paycuts and all, are doing well. I finance my flight training. For the 300$ a week I pay, for the hour and a half lesson... I cant imagine waking up and doing it everyday... in the worlds best aircraft... and then getting a check. Dont b*tch please... you guys have it made.

 

[reapergm]

And I totally agree with lugginjugs!! DAMN RIGHT!

And remember.. jet jocks gold wings shine no brighter than the helo bubbas!!