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Air Force v.s. Navy Culture Differences

zipmartin

zipmartin

Never been better
pilot
Contributor
I admit that I'm an old fart, but when I was on my first cruise and we were doing flex-deck ops (round the clock ops for 24-36 hours to test our wartime capability), you would fly, catch a couple hours of rest/sleep, fly again, repeat, till the powers that be determined we could operate at a tempo sufficient to win the battle. There was never any mention of "crew rest". Was it safe? By today's standards, undoubtedly not. But we never lost anyone. Did we question the legitimacy of this type of ops? Of course, but the cold war was still going on and everyone figured if the balloon ever went up, we had to be prepared. It wasn't until I got to the "Show" that I first heard of "crew rest".
 
sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
zipmartin said:
I admit that I'm an old fart, but when I was on my first cruise and we were doing flex-deck ops (round the clock ops for 24-36 hours to test our wartime capability), you would fly, catch a couple hours of rest/sleep, fly again, repeat, till the powers that be determined we could operate at a tempo sufficient to win the battle. There was never any mention of "crew rest". Was it safe? By today's standards, undoubtedly not. But we never lost anyone. Did we question the legitimacy of this type of ops? Of course, but the cold war was still going on and everyone figured if the balloon ever went up, we had to be prepared. It wasn't until I got to the "Show" that I first heard of "crew rest".
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The reality on the ground is, there are times that violating crew rest doesn't actually impact safety, and satisfying crew rest requirements doesn't guarantee a pilot won't fly tired. In my opinion, they just have to draw the line somewhere, so the powers-that-be don't constantly run pilots into dangerous situations.

C2X is a special case, and admittedly, there has to be a way of stressing the sortie-generation capacity of the air wing, but something about the way they do it still rubs me the wrong way. Maybe that's why I'm not on AD any more. :D
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
sevenhelmet said:
I never tried the "legal speed" pills. We did have non-amphetamine "go pills" (Modafinil) on my last USN deployment. I took it as prescribed during the crossing for side-effect evaluation, and then took it exactly once before a combat mission.

Didn't sleep for 3 nights. Never again. Coffee is my jam.
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They're awesome, highly recommend!
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
zipmartin said:
I admit that I'm an old fart, but when I was on my first cruise and we were doing flex-deck ops (round the clock ops for 24-36 hours to test our wartime capability), you would fly, catch a couple hours of rest/sleep, fly again, repeat, till the powers that be determined we could operate at a tempo sufficient to win the battle. There was never any mention of "crew rest". Was it safe? By today's standards, undoubtedly not. But we never lost anyone. Did we question the legitimacy of this type of ops? Of course, but the cold war was still going on and everyone figured if the balloon ever went up, we had to be prepared. It wasn't until I got to the "Show" that I first heard of "crew rest".
Click to expand...
Well if the balloon goes up, you’ll start hearing those magic words “operational necessity.”
 
HuggyU2

HuggyU2

Well-Known Member
None
This wasn't a standard "crew rest" mishap in that they were over 12 hours... but the thrash that we have all dealt with can eventually kill you.

I don't know the whole story. But talking to those that know more than I do, delays and "pressing the timeline" were contributing factors.

Skin the cat how you want... it's "crew rest"... degraded decision making and less than optimum focus.

The local leadership owns a part of this one, based on what the local IP cadre say. Of course, none of them took a hit... and at least one has continued his rise up the ranks.

www.airforcetimes.com

Pilotsâ errors upon descent led to fatal T-38 crash in February, Air Force says

The student pilot's tendency to overcorrect when issues arose contributed to his death and his instructor's.
www.airforcetimes.com www.airforcetimes.com
 
Austin-Powers

Austin-Powers

Powers By Name, Powers By Reputation
I just wanna give an update on my process, I rushed my first unit, it was definitely overwhelming, to say the least. But I am not deterred. 4 of us showed up, 2 of which were civilians with PPLs and 1 former Marine aviator and me with not a lot of flight time. The guys and gals were definitely nice, but there definitely was a different “attitude” I guess in regards to the pilots and all. I’d appreciate any advice from this point forward.
 
Swanee

Swanee

Cereal Killer
pilot
None
Contributor
Austin-Powers said:
I just wanna give an update on my process, I rushed my first unit, it was definitely overwhelming, to say the least. But I am not deterred. 4 of us showed up, 2 of which were civilians with PPLs and 1 former Marine aviator and me with not a lot of flight time. The guys and gals were definitely nice, but there definitely was a different “attitude” I guess in regards to the pilots and all. I’d appreciate any advice from this point forward.
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Be yourself. Don't say no to something you're invited to. Talk to everyone you can, it's not just the pilots who are important in the process- it's everyone. That Chief, or that MSgt, or whomever, holds sway in court with the folks who decide who to interview and who to hire.

Be positive, be happy, be excited, and be honest. It's okay to not be the center of attention. It's okay to be soaking it in and not have a lot of questions. It's okay to not have the best story. It's okay to say, "Wow, there was a lot of people here and I was a bit overwhelmed" with the pilot hiring POC.
 
Austin-Powers

Austin-Powers

Powers By Name, Powers By Reputation
Just to add, I will say it was everyone that made it memorable, the crew chiefs were definitely awesome, as well as the logistics side, I’m glad to see it all, and how it all functions.
 
ChuckMK23

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Love how the good admiral appropriated the AF position/job patch (which in itself is cool, PILOT, NAV, MEDIC, etc)

1667775610145.png
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
ChuckMK23 said:
Love how the good admiral appropriated the AF position/job patch (which in itself is cool, PILOT, NAV, MEDIC, etc)

View attachment 36648
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Ha! The patch thing has gotten nuts. I can remember when “your qualifications precede you” was a thing. Next thing you know we’ll have guys wearing a patch that says “Radio Operator” or “Cook.”
 
Griz882

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
UInavy said:
I think you’re joking, but you just mean badges? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usamm.com/a/s/products/e-4-5-6-culinary-specialist-rating-badge
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I am 1/2 to 3/4 joking…I’m not really talking about “insignia” but the use of Velcro patches on sleeves and similar things. Don’t get me wrong, I love bling as much as the next fellow but these are official uniforms. The admiral @ChuckMK23 mentioned already shows some remarkable professional accomplishments with his dolphins other pin but the Nukes patch? I get MP and maybe MEDIC but EOD? Or, maybe, I am simply confusing the issue and should be asking…Why is a US Navy submarine admiral wearing a battlefield uniform?
 
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