I'm taking a few ARMY ROTC classes (why?, my school requires I take free elective classes, and I figured why not brush up on some topics before heading to TBS) and the cadets address the instructor as Sgt. However, he is a Master Sgt. Is this proper greeting in the fleet or is this just an Army thing? I feel he has earned the right to be greeted with his full rank.
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Addressing personnel properly
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Taxman2A
War were declared.
Absolutely just an army thing. Actually, even in the Army MSgt is a gray area. First Sergeants, Sergeant Majors, and Command Sergeant Majors are all addressed by their full title. The Army goes both ways with whether MSgts are "Sergeants" or "Master Sergeants". Generally when I deal with Army, I address all NCOs (they don't have SNCOs) by their rank. My belief is that rockers aren't given away for free, and in my eyes an E-7 is different than an E-5, be they gunny's or sergeant first class... Besides, it's just one more thing I can do to distinguish myself as not being in the Army. I'm currently deployed to a place that has much more army personnel than I would prefer.
Taxman's right on this one.
I work w/ an army Staff Sgt, and the first time I addressed him as "Staff Sgt", I got a funny look. I figure it like Taxman... you earn the rockers, and if you are a Staff Sgt, I'll address you as such b/c you earned it.
As far as Master Sgts, either way works... its personal preference I've found.
I work w/ an army Staff Sgt, and the first time I addressed him as "Staff Sgt", I got a funny look. I figure it like Taxman... you earn the rockers, and if you are a Staff Sgt, I'll address you as such b/c you earned it.
As far as Master Sgts, either way works... its personal preference I've found.
Great, thanks for the heads up.
A little off-topic:
Just got back from one of my ROTC classes and it is being taught by a LTC. As he enters the room, no one acknowledges him until he gets to the front. After the first hour, there are heads dropping all over the place(i know this happens at OCS, but the atmosphere is different there) and cadets are talking amongst themselves while he is teaching. Simply unsat.
A little off-topic:
Just got back from one of my ROTC classes and it is being taught by a LTC. As he enters the room, no one acknowledges him until he gets to the front. After the first hour, there are heads dropping all over the place(i know this happens at OCS, but the atmosphere is different there) and cadets are talking amongst themselves while he is teaching. Simply unsat.
Taxman2A
War were declared.
Respect is a much different ballgame in the Army. In the Marines as a lieutenant you will be addressed by your Marines while at parade rest, and even during casual conversation "sir" will be thrown in periodically. I have seen Army Captains and Specialists (a non-nco E-4 Army Rank) talk for minutes each one of them referring to the other as "Man", as in "I'm telllin ya man!".
Don't get me wrong, I didn't become an Officer to be saluted and called sir, but to have total lack of respect for the rank structure comes off to me as civilian and undisciplined.
So yeah, they don't give much respect to LtCols, they really don't give respect to Lts, or "L.T.'s" as per army vernacular. One thing to remember is that you can't fix the Army so don't try.
I'd like to say that individually Soldiers can be some of the most dedicated, professional, and outstanding members of our Armed Forces, and I mean no disrespect to anyone serving in the Army. On the whole though, the standards for customs and courtesies are lower than what you will find in the Marines.
Don't get me wrong, I didn't become an Officer to be saluted and called sir, but to have total lack of respect for the rank structure comes off to me as civilian and undisciplined.
So yeah, they don't give much respect to LtCols, they really don't give respect to Lts, or "L.T.'s" as per army vernacular. One thing to remember is that you can't fix the Army so don't try.
I'd like to say that individually Soldiers can be some of the most dedicated, professional, and outstanding members of our Armed Forces, and I mean no disrespect to anyone serving in the Army. On the whole though, the standards for customs and courtesies are lower than what you will find in the Marines.
Taxman2A said:
hmm, can't count the times while wearing BDUs on an ARG with the sleaves "rolled wrong" a Marine would yell "hey Devil!" or " hey Dog" from behind me to correct me before he would realize that I was in the Navy, higher ranking, and that he was way out of line. I would prefer " hey man" over being called a dog. All in all, the Marines thrive on the respect system. Even minor differences in rank seem to mean much more. Good or bad, I'd take the Navy's values over the Army's or Marine's system. It is somewhere in the middle.
Tempest said:
Quick question, how is correcting someone on being out of uniform make him out of line? I can see wrong since you would be in the Navy and have slightly different standards but out of line? Someone can be high ranking and yet still out of uniform...
Yes, respect is very important in the Marine Corps and service ettiquite (sp?) is likewise important. Is that a bad thing? Some might think so, and yes the Navy does seem to be somewhere in the middle between the Army and the Marine Corps...
Country Boy
Proud Father
I think the out of line he was referring to was calling a higher ranking person "dog." I have to agree with both jamnww and Tempest, because both views are right. The Marines have a much different mission to accomplish than the Navy and therefore must have their own standards and way of doing business. I would say that respect and service etiquette being important is not a bad thing, it is just not taken as far in the Navy.jamnww said:
Cougar_62
Just another frustrated observer.
My daughter's Civil Air Patrol unit commander is a retired Air Force Command Chief Master Sgt. I'm just a civilian, but I wouldn't feel right calling him by his name. He's Chief to me. A lot of our cadets hope to be in the military in the future and it's good to see that they're learning respect for the ranks, whether Enlisted, Senior NCOs or Officers.
Crowbar said:
until about 2000 anyone working for Naval Special Warfare rolled their sleeves the Army way. Special Warfare falls under the Army chain of command, thus we followed some of their uniform rules. It was only "rolled wrong" to those who were not informed of our rules. The disrespect is calling some one a dog before recognizing who they were speaking to. It was always a condecending tone as they thought they had caught someone out of line, and most of them were just waiting for someone to fall out of line.
My point was both that military bearning has a role both in service and between services. It is very easy to point a finger(as I and others did) and say how wrong a group is, but it works for their system. Marines need the harsh, strict guidelines. I am comfortable with the Navy's system, but will adapt to a Marines system when addressing him and expect the same in return.
as far as the term BDUs...symantics, call them what you will. If you need me I will be over at the drinking fountain on the wall by the restroom.