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A4s to be allowed back in the cockpit?
- Thread starter usmcecho4
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So if you keep letting the old timers do it... how do the new guys get any experience? Theres plenty of commercial jobs out there, if you want to keep flying after 60, by all means, as I plan to, but the cycle has to turn over as people will quickly quit shelling out $100k for a FO job that pays $18k/year...and then... the whole industy is going to feel like it was in the golden era right now... next they will try to make crew days 42 hours long, 8 per week
snizo
Supply Officer
Are you serious? I get a little nervous when one of these self-funded kids (and I emphasize "kid") gets in the cockpit of my ExpressJet flight. Why would I want to put my life in the hands of someone just so they can get flying experience?
I'd rather put my life with someone who flew for the military (or something else for a while before joining Continental), has a ton of hours, and looks old enough to vote.
People are living and staying healthier longer. As long as there are safeguards to make sure said pilot is able to do their job safely in to their 60's, I'm all for it...
I'd rather put my life with someone who flew for the military (or something else for a while before joining Continental), has a ton of hours, and looks old enough to vote.
People are living and staying healthier longer. As long as there are safeguards to make sure said pilot is able to do their job safely in to their 60's, I'm all for it...
I agree… experience that’s what I’d like, someone like A4's at the yoke. Not to steal a thread, but just a little sea story… We were to fly out of Cecil for a det on the station plane, a C47. An O4 walked aboard and got in the right seat. Now… I’m thinking to myself “who’s gonna fly this rig!” and then a squared away marine E9 comes aboard and gets in the left seat. (By the way… a set of wings and medals from his shoulder to his belly button.) Now that's experience.
Steve
Not all the people who are flying the right seat of the express jet are self funded kids... and not all the people flying the left seat are old timers with thousands of hours... way to generalize. The point is the industry needs turn over so that when YOU live into your 80's the only thing thats left isn't self funded kids who just got their discovery flight in a 172. The market has a great pool of guys with 1500-3000 hours clawing for jobs that won't open till people retire... Now please dont look at this as a hit against the old timers, because I love listening to the stories.. most of these guys flew in the golden age of aviation... but the industry needs the turnover to prosper
And for the record the captain on that express jet you are flying in.. upgraded in about 12 months from the right seat.... yet he's still qualified, and experienced.... with his 2500~3000TT, oh and hes probably 30ish... if you dont like those numbers drive, walk, but dont defame the industry because assume time=experience....
And for the record the captain on that express jet you are flying in.. upgraded in about 12 months from the right seat.... yet he's still qualified, and experienced.... with his 2500~3000TT, oh and hes probably 30ish... if you dont like those numbers drive, walk, but dont defame the industry because assume time=experience....
There are so many things wrong in this post I don't know where to start.
Do you know anything about what life is like for pilots at regional airlines?
First off, it isn't hard to get a job at a regional airline. Most of the applicants are flight instructors looking for their "big break", even though they can make more instructing.
The industry doesn't need turnover to prosper. The high turnover is what makes regional flying so crappy (for the most part). Ask any Mesa pilot.
Oh, and most RJ pilots upgrade in about 2+ years not 12 months.
snizo
Supply Officer
tk628 - Clearly I meant what I said applies to every single pilot in the entire world. :icon_roll
Why would you think that we would ever wind up with 80,000 empty pilot positions and only self-funded kids to fill them? Raising the retirement age would slow turnover for a few years, but that is it. Until we go to an all UAV military force, we will have military pilots getting out at all stages of their career ready to take the controls of my Boeing 787 flight to London....
I can understand the younger crowd being angry - they want to make some more money and get experience on the heavier metal. I don't have much sympathy for people who knowingly got in to an industry where a hugely variable salary is based primarily on experience. I'll feel more sympathetic for the retired crowd who got screwed out of a pension because of airline management (but don't tell A4s I said that
).
Why would you think that we would ever wind up with 80,000 empty pilot positions and only self-funded kids to fill them? Raising the retirement age would slow turnover for a few years, but that is it. Until we go to an all UAV military force, we will have military pilots getting out at all stages of their career ready to take the controls of my Boeing 787 flight to London....
I can understand the younger crowd being angry - they want to make some more money and get experience on the heavier metal. I don't have much sympathy for people who knowingly got in to an industry where a hugely variable salary is based primarily on experience. I'll feel more sympathetic for the retired crowd who got screwed out of a pension because of airline management (but don't tell A4s I said that
).
I don't want A4's back in the cockpit. His reflexes are slow now. He can be my bartender though.
Me too! Even if he's mixing a drink and squeezing limes. All kidding aside, nothing like being "downtown" for experience.
Steve
The way I remember it, A4's wasn't exactly sad about his retirement.
Thats because his generation is Redefining Retirement With JP Morgan Financial Services!
I don't want A4's back in the cockpit. His reflexes are slow now. He can be my bartender though.
I imagine him as Issac Washington from the Love Boat.
Brett
I imagine him as Issac Washington from the Love Boat.
Brett
Ha!....
No... im not assuming time=experience...I am saying the argurment that the older they are.. well the safer they must be is not a very good one... How do you know the guy didnt spend the last 30 years flying King Air's in perfect VFR only to go to express jet when his charter company went belly up... thats the guy I want flying an ILS to mins.. with my butt strapped in the back... (actually he is a really good guy.. but his inst skills werent good going into training... lot of hard work on his part)...
Well how about a compromise... how about 65 for the cargo boys... that way its not showing great advantage to young or old.... keep it 60 for the rest or vice versa... actually now that I think about it .. for the younger guys.. 65 for the bus drivers.. open up all those nice seats at UPS and FEDEX....
How about keep it at 60!!! Trust me the last thing you want is your Grandpa flying over your house in the middle of the night.. Flying the backside of the clock really beats the sh1t out of you, especially those commuters! They are always tired and look about 10 years older!
This change to the rule 60 is BAD news...
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