12 Dead, 31 Wounded @ FT HOOD

[Brett327]

Much of what you said is good stuff, and I agree these decisions take time. I'm just wondering when does it become a matter of taking too much time and become detrimental to the mission?

I haven't said it yet, but my thoughts and prayers are with the families affected by this tradjedy.

I think you're getting the picture. This stuff is way, way above both of our paygrades - as an officer AND as a civilian. We shouldn't criticize things we have very little grasp of based on having 5% of the facts that The Man has in front of him. That's good advice for all you new JOs headed for the fleet. You will all come across policies and decisions that make absolutely no sense to you and you will say WTF? Just know that most of the time, there's a method to the (apparent) madness and the guys in charge know what they're doing.

Brett

 

[Jim123]

My point exactly, senior leadership!! He wasn't a doctor while in med school. And...we aren't even talking about his competency as a physician.
Jim, Did you know the accused?

Nope, and I have no connection to the people or events other than my being in the military.

Passion or not, just stating the facts.

Fair enough; hindsight is always 20/20 and if we're smart we learn from mistakes.

 

[A4sForever]

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Officer describes firefight that downed Hasan[/FONT]

From the article:

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]Sgt. Mark Todd ([/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]a retired soldier who now works as a civilian police officer at Fort Hood) [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]... [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]

"Munley was down by the time he (Todd) engaged Hasan, Todd said. He wasn't sure if Munley had wounded the suspect, because "once he started firing at me, I lost track of her."
Todd said he fired his Beretta at Hasan. Hasan flinched, Todd said, then slid down against a telephone pole and fell on his back. Todd says he then heard bystanders say "two more, two more."
At first he thought they meant there were two more suspects, but realized they were urging him to fire two more rounds at Hasan ..."


Like I said -- if you get the M/F down ... no quarter; make certain he won't get back up again ... a.k.a. -- kill him.

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[Cleonard19]

Nvm.

 

[Will_T]

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]


Like I said -- if you get the M/F down ... no quarter; make certain he won't get back up again ... a.k.a. -- kill him.

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Its called the Double Tap sir.

 

[A4sForever]

Its called the Double Tap sir.

Thanks for the gun-guru-tech-info (I taught this stuff for @ 15 years at a reputable school) ... . but actually -- it's still called 'kill him'.

 

[Brett327]

Thanks for the gun-guru-tech-info (I taught this stuff for @ 15 years at a reputable school) ... . but actually -- it's still called 'kill him'.

This makes me smile -> Seems like just finishing the guy off would eliminate a whole lot of hassle with the justice system. Something about instant retribution just seems very satisfying to me.

Is this "tactic" ever taught to LE, or is the opposite trained to?

Brett

 

[C420sailor]

This makes me smile -> Seems like just finishing the guy off would eliminate a whole lot of hassle with the justice system. Something about instant retribution just seems very satisfying to me.

Is this "tactic" ever taught to LE, or is the opposite trained to?

Brett

I'd be willing to bet that if an officer walked up to an incapacitated perp and finished him off he'd end up on the wrong side of the steel bars.

Although I totally agree with you.

 

[picklesuit]

I have to say it shows good restraint on the police officer's part not to shoot him again. You know the bleeding heart types would have had an investigation on the police side..and a witch hunt would have ensued if they discovered he (Hasan) had been shot again while he was down.

I don't think I would have had the restraint, but all the same, good on the cop for following his training...

 

[Brett327]

I'd be willing to bet that if an officer walked up to an incapacitated perp and finished him off he'd end up on the wrong side of the steel bars.

Although I totally agree with you.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about during a firefight and LE has the option to incapacitate vs. kill. Kind of a fine line/gray area, but I'm curious what people are trained to.

Brett

 

[Will_T]

Thanks for the gun-guru-tech-info (I taught this stuff for @ 15 years at a reputable school) ... . but actually -- it's still called 'kill him'.

Im not a gun guru, I just saw Zombieland, im taking it you didnt. And I thought they'd have a new, longer name, like neutralization of suspect or something of the like. :icon_tong

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

Im not a gun guru, I just saw Zombieland, im taking it you didnt. And I thought they'd have a new, longer name, like neutralization of suspect or something of the like. :icon_tong

A4s seeing Zombieland.


I'm trying real hard, but I just can't seem to imagine that happening. But, I got a cousin who could hook him up with a bootleg copy if necessary.

 

[navy09]

The Marines put that faith in their people, why can't we up our training requirements at the beginning so we can put the same faith in ours?

Money, time. I'd rather the Navy spend that time and money teaching my ENFR how to fix shit rather than shooting a gun he'll never touch again.

What would a 13 page AW thread be without a few threadjacks?

 

[PropAddict]

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about during a firefight and LE has the option to incapacitate vs. kill. Kind of a fine line/gray area, but I'm curious what people are trained to.

Brett

IANAC, but all the training I've received has taught "shoot to kill."

Shoot to injure? WTF is that? If you're in a situation where you feel killing is not necessary/justified, you ought not be using that gun (for this job) in the first place.

 

[A4sForever]

....Is this "tactic" ever taught to LE, or is the opposite trained to?

Brett

Well ... no one will ever admit it, but here's an example:

... in the current hunt/takedown of the SEA-perp who shot and killed the Seattle cop on Halloween night ... yesterday (right after the cop/Army vet's memorial service) SEA SWAT served the 'suspect' w/ a search warrant -- he pulled a gun -- SWAT took him down w/ a head shot, amongst others ....

The only problem is: he survived.

Next week's schedule for SEA SWAT: more time at the range.