10% cut in military budget

[natelzjames]

Hal

If you would have read my posts you would have seen that I was in a union for 10 years. I speak from what I know, because the truth is, my union, as most unions had greedy people. Matter of fact, our union president was caught embezzeling funds from union money. Our money, the people they are supposed to help. The ass-fucking comes from both sides. I would rather be fucked by managment than by the people who are supposed to help us.

 

[HAL Pilot]

natelzjames,

That's not the fault of the union (i.e. the concept of the union) but of the union membership. The membership elects the union officials and can recall them. Did you participate in the union or were you one of the passive members that just existed and bitched about the leadership?

I've lived it for the last 10 years too. My airline is one of the best off financially in the industry and is profitable. We are spending huge amounts in capital improvements and the Board of Directors is getting ready to give our CEO a bonus in excess of $1.5 million for last year's results. Yet the pilots haven't had a even a cost of living pay raise since 2006 and our overall compensation and benefits are 20% less than in 2005 when we approved a concessionary contract during bankruptcy. Our union has always stepped up to the plate and helped the company survive. Yet our contract was amendable 2 years ago and management wants us to take more concessions and no pay raises. Where is the payback for helping the company survive its financial crisis? The only thing protecting us is our contract, the union that defends it and the laws that makes management come to an agreement with the union vice unilaterally imposing the cuts they want.

As I said, there are good unions and bad unions. It's an imperfect system but it's the best we have. If you plan on trusting to the benevolence of management, I have a bridge I'll sell you. Granted there is always the exception but most corporate managers only care about two thing - shareholder profits and the financial awards achieving those profits brings them. And if you think management passes those awards on to the workers, you are delusional. Just look at all the recent history of bankruptcies resulting in massive worker pay cuts, concessions and layofs while the managers are awarded huge bonuses for "cutting costs".

I'm sorry but if your union was corrupt, it is because its members allowed it. That's your fault and not the fault of the union concept. Funny, but I read about a lot more CEOs and managers going to jail for corruption than I do union leaders.

 

[natelzjames]

Hal,

In that case Communism is the best thing since sliced bread. In theory communism does the most good for the largest amount of people, however, people are imperfect so the system breaks down. As my above post states, what is more important, making sure pilots who are already getting good money get pay raises or taking care of homeless families. Also, trusting to the benevolence of management, works for union leadership as well.

There are many jobs that are not union and they are not getting screwed over, but make a very good living. It is harder to get a full time union job than it is to get a non union full time job. There are many union jobs that have waiting lists of years for full time positions. The very nature of unions breeds complacency. It is a latent function. And complacency breeds laziness. In economic hardships a pay rise for one person means someone else is not getting a job, raise, or even laid off. Instead of people complaining that they haven't gotten a raise, they should be glad that they have a job. Where has this right to entitlement come from?

Make no mistake, I do not mean to put any one down because of their support for unions. I try to make people realize that there is more than one view. Just because unions benefit few doesn't mean that they benefit many. And unions can hurt just as many, if not more, than they help.

If you wish to continue this discussion I will be happy to PM as long as it is kept civil.

 

[Pugs]

The devil be in the details. Not saying there is no fat but .....

(A) Include BAS/BAH as portion of normal pay and allowance, thus making it taxable. (B) Scale back the far to generous retirement system.

Good info Chief and the next target will be retired medical expenses. I fully expect that they will, in a combination of socialized medicine and cutting the defense side, try and get rid of TriCare for life.

I can bitch about him all I want, I'm retired

 

[phrogdriver]

Is this a union thread or a budget thread? Split it?

The problem with infrastructure investment is that is takes too long to take effect. To build a road takes a lot of study, from traffic flow to environmental impact, lead time (Farmer Bill isn't giving away his land for free), and contracting delay. You can't just assemble the bulldozers and start paving the country.

So, instead we're just shoveling money out the door into every pork trough out there.

I think that our problem is lack of investment and business profits. Why not have a capital gains tax holiday? Tell people that it would be 0% for 3 years and 5% after that. Cut the corporate tax to 10%. I think money would roar back into the stock market, and people would probably start snapping up houses that are at market bottom in the hopes of getting some untaxed capital gains. It would be expensive initially (but not 1.15 trillion, I'm sure) but would probably actually pay for itself with economic growth--you could probably leave reduced tax rates in place. Most of all, it wouldn't bloat government anymore.

 

[FrankTheTank]

But I still think we should cancel the Air Force...

Something we can agree upon...

I think that our problem is lack of investment and business profits. Why not have a capital gains tax holiday? Tell people that it would be 0% for 3 years and 5% after that. Cut the corporate tax to 10%. I think money would roar back into the stock market, and people would probably start snapping up houses that are at market bottom in the hopes of getting some untaxed capital gains.

Brilliant idea... But won't work.. Just not part of the Democrat's philosophy! If it were ever going to happen it had to be when the Republican congress was running the show...

 

[Pugs]

Brilliant idea... But won't work.. Just not part of the Democrat's philosophy! If it were ever going to happen it had to be when the Republican congress was running the show...

Will work, just won't happen because of the Democrats

 

[FLYTPAY]

Good stuff.

The philosophy comes down to prehistoric nature. He who works harder hunting and gathering, eats more, and has excess for his family. He who is lazy starves. I am wholeheartedly against screwing the people who work hard to GIVE the people who don't a handout. Fvck handouts! If you want something, work for it, if you cannot afford it, save for it, if you still cannot afford it, rethink your goals.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Will work, just won't happen because of the Democrats

When I said 'won't work' = 'won't happen/pass'.. I think we are in agreement

 

[Bevo16]

Seems to me that a governments jobs is to protect its society, militarily speaking as well as making sure people have health care, food, and a place to live.

What?

Can you find somewhere in the constitution where it says that it is the job of the government to provide health care, food, and housing? THAT is socialism.

It is the job of the government to insure life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. That means law enforcement and and a fair judiciary, and the rest is up to you to go out and get with your own sweat.

The problem is that there are to damn many people sitting on their ass waiting for the government to create some program for them and to damn many politicians willing to give them handouts. It's amazing that there are people who actually believe that the government has some RESPONSIBILITY to house and feed you. That is WAY off the mark.

To get this back on point, within the past week President Carter has proposed billions of taxpayer dollars (well, not real taxpayer dollars, we are just printing money at this point) for social programs that have no basis in the constitution and cuts for the common defense, which does have basis in the constitution. This is F'd up at very fundamental levels.

 

[scoolbubba]

I think maybe I'll move to Aussie land in a few years; at least then the socialists aren't coy about what they call themselves and what they want to do with your money.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Unions are a necessary evil. Some are good and some are bad, but without unions, most corporations would be ass-fucking every one of their workers at every opportunity.

Then why is it that most, if not all, Japanese companies that exist in the U.S. don't have unions? To add on to that, at those plants/factories, when unions have been voted on, they get voted down.

I'm not bashing unions, the did a good job, it's just interesting to see how everyone says they're absolutely necessary when there are quite a few large companies that operate sans union and have no issues whatsoever.

 

[Bevo16]

I'm not bashing unions, the did a good job, it's just interesting to see how everyone says they're absolutely necessary when there are quite a few large companies that operate sans union and have no issues whatsoever.

Yup.

And it's just a WILD coincidence that the airlines and auto makers are the two industries that are most often in line for federal assistance AND are the most highly unionized. Amazing. One form of socialism feeding another.

 

[insanebikerboy]

A good portion of this is useless pork, though, and yet again our reps voted with whatever would benefit them the most, rather than what would benefit the US the most. Awesome. I can't wait to still be living in America in 2029.

That's a double-edged sword. Congress has to balance what they think is good for the U.S. with what they think will benefit their constituency. I for one don't like the idea of the guys in D.C. thinking solely in terms of the entire United States, because that glosses over who voted to put them in office. If all the Congressmen and Senators start working together just for the sake of the U.S., it's scary to think they may begin to ignore the individuals in the districts and states that put them there.

I also don't agree with pork spending, which I think is part of this stimulus bill. That's why they need to step back and look at it, because that way they could challenge the items in the bill instead of just saying they'll vote for it for the good of the economy. That puts back that checks and balances that was intended and that is needed to prevent wasteful spending.

 

[MasterBates]

Don't forget if you are a LT or below you ARE in a union-

Drunk Pilots Local 120 here..

Just ask yourself, do you participate in your "union" or just bitch about union leadership and take your porking from "the MAN" passively?