Joshua, I think you have to take the exam again. Candidates are allowed to take the exam 3 times and only the most recent score is what can be submitted.
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1,001 questions about the ASTB (post your scores & ask your questions here!)
- Thread starter edato
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BPeterson93
Soon to be Naval Aviator
Everyone has already said what needed to be said about retesting, study your ass off man. But I also recommend you beef up your LORs in some way.
Write your request for resubmittal letter and make sure you sound sincere about service in the Navy. Etc.
Because you've been bounced once you need to come back with a much stronger package.
Write your request for resubmittal letter and make sure you sound sincere about service in the Navy. Etc.
Because you've been bounced once you need to come back with a much stronger package.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
keep studying, what does concern me though is you have a good OAR but low PFAR, the ASTB is an aptitude test and it might be the aptitude for what goes into the PFAR just isn't there.
In most cases I would see low PFAR/FOFAR/AQR with a corresponding low OAR
Joshua Owen
Active Member
Hopefully I just need more studying and a better understanding of the concepts. Third time's a charm.
PMPT
Well-Known Member
Hello folks,
Just wanted to add my own $0.02 to what has already been said. This forum has been a great help to me and I would like to try to give something back to the community.
Just sat the ASTB-E recently and so thought I would try to provide my insight as to what I found useful, what I thought was superfluous, and what I would recommend avoiding or not doing.
I would very much recommend picking up one or two of the review books and working your way through the practice tests. Frankly, the ASTB-E was significantly different from what I had been expecting on the basis of the sorts of questions I had seen in the practice tests, but they are nevertheless good for getting you into the right mindset to do mental arithmetic quickly. I will confess that I was somewhat cavalier about reading comprehension and found the reading comprehension in the ASTB-E to be surprisingly challenging. I attribute this however not to any inherent incapability to comprehend texts, but rather the nature of the ASTB questions. I felt that they required you to deduce a fair bit of information in a rather formal manner, complicated by the fact that nearly all of the 'texts' seemed to be written in a very bureaucratic and dense fashion. The subject matter also tended to revolve around Navy HR issues and the like, so I don't think it was terribly easy to quickly and rapidly understand what the texts were saying. But alas, perhaps I would have felt differently if I had done more prep to get my brain into that mode? I don't know. I would also very much recommend going on Khan Academy and brushing up on your basic algebra skills (e.g. working with literal equations, working monomials, binomials, polynomials, quadratics, factoring, as well as being able to work comfortably with radicals and exponents (including fractional and negative exponents). I got several questions on the math section asking me to simplify radicals and I'm very glad that I was comfortable doing so. You might also look into logarithms, as I had read on many fora that log questions figured prominently - but I did not get even one on my test. I'm still glad I had taken the time to learn more about logarithms since this is good math knowledge regardless of its utility to help you on the test, but of course here we are concerned with getting the most bang for the least buck. I wouldn't say leave it off, but it did not seem on my test to have had any utility at all. My math test was ended before the full time allotment was used up, by the way.
I would definitely also recommend familiarising yourself with basic concepts in physics. There's an old book published by the Bureau of Naval Personnel called 'Basic Machines and How they Work' - covers pretty much all you would need to know, but it would also hurt to continue to learn some general scientific and physical concepts. Frankly, the information required to complete the 'mechanical comprehension' section effectively was very, very broad, and was not at all like what I was expecting from the practice tests. I think I may have had overall only two questions about levers and mechanical advantage. Not honestly sure how I could have better prepared for this other than to just be generally aware of major ideas in basic physics.
Naval and aviation information section ... this was not hard. It definitely did ask some questions about aircraft types (e.g. what was the best known dive bomber used by the USN in WWII?) which I wasn't expecting so much as I was expecting questions about aerodynamics and the like, but alas.
As for what I thought was superfluous ... well, I think I honestly massively overprepared for the math section. I too got a weird question about writing digits in something other than base 10, but it wasn't hard, and I don't think you could have really 'studied' very well for it. Likewise, I didn't get that many
'pure' math questions other than some questions about number properties (e.g. given that A>0 and B <3, what MUST be true of the following ... followed by various statements testing number properties, basically you would need to be able to identify when a statement must necessarily be true given the premises. Know your rules about positive and negative integers and how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide them, and what happens when you do this). I also got lots of questions about radicals, exponents, and fractional exponents. I think studying too much for the pure math may be inefficient, given the number of Qs you will get. With that being said, I was lucky that I had been brushing up on my algebra for quite some time before hand (for reasons other than the ASTB), so take from that what you will...
I will say, word problems featured very heavily and they were not at all easy. They did not follow the 'expected' pattern or types of questions the prep books will lead you to believe will appear, so be prepared. I would suggest you be very comfortable working with fractions and percentages as many of the questions gave you various scores for tests, then asked you what the final two tests scores would have to be, given various limitations/parameters (e.g. the 4th test score is 9/8 of 2/3 of the 3rd test score) to get a given average e.g. J scored an 82, an 85, and an 89. If his 4th test is 5/6 of the average of the first 3 scores, what must the 5th score be for his average score to be a 78?). Given enough time, I'm sure most of us could work this out, but it seems pretty intimidating in the test setting and certainly required several calculations to get to the right answer. Just be sure you are confident working with fractions and percentages.
As for timing, honestly, I don't know what to recommend here. I worked as quickly as I could but I likewise made sure to work through my problems as best as I could. I wasn't sure if I was taking too long or too little time. I think I was stopped about 10-12 minutes before the allotted time. I think you just have to go with your gut here. Don't waste time but don't skip questions and blindly guess just because they look intimidating.
PBMs ... these were actually pretty good fun. I honestly dont know how I could have better prepared for this. I played MS flight sim a bit and that kind of helped me train my brain to focus on various pieces of info at the same time, but the thinking is not entirely analogous to what is tested. As other folks have said on this site, make sure to use the nav flashcards you can find on the internet. There is likewise the ability to do the practice test in the APEX system repeatedly. I think I did pretty well but definitely missed a few and just lost my orientation. the most difficult ones for me were when you were told the UAV was heading in a diagonal direction (if you can call it that i.e. you were going NE, SE, SW, or NW). just practice the flashcards alot.
As for the other things, I really dont think the dichotic listening test was at all hard. You'll just have to give it your best here. I will say that the actual aircraft tracking is bloody hard and I thought I had done very poorly at the end of the test. If you have taken the AFOQT ... it is basically the same as the TBAS. Playing videogames might have prepared me well for this (especially FPS) but suffice it to say that I did not do much of that.
Overall, the test was easier than I was expecting. I was very intimidated by what I had read on here. Don't be too afraid. It's not easy, but it certainly isn't terribly difficult either. Just make sure you feel comfortable going in and don't skimp on preparation. At the same time however, don't waste 3 months doing 3 hours a day of practice tests. I think you are better suited using that time to become more generally familiar with aviation, mathematics, science, and determining whether or not flying really is for you. Best tip I can give you is to just do lots of mental math. DO it in the supermarket. Do it when measuring stuff out with cup measures at home. Get yourself in the habit where you can quickly and accurately perform basic operations. This will take some time if you did not use mathematics alot at university (I did not - but relearning basic math has really got me back into and interest in science and mathematics! so perhaps taking a few months to really familiarise yourself isn't the worst thing. you will be learning aircraft systems, aerodynamics, and about the avionics if you do end up going to flight training, so it can't hurt you at all to get into a more scientific and technical mindset as early as possible). Also give yourself time to prepare. I gather that Navy recruiters want you to take it seriously. Marine OSOs seem to just want you to do the test as quickly as possible and I think this is probably not a good idea for most candidates. So if you have to stand your ground a bit, stand firm, politely decline and explain that you want time to prepare. dont short change yourself and burn up 1 of your 3 chances and make yourself wait 90 more days. more importantly, just smash it out of the park the first time. get it over with.
For what it's worth, I got a 62 8/8/8. Disappointed about that first number but did well enough on the other 3 I guess.
Good luck.
Just wanted to add my own $0.02 to what has already been said. This forum has been a great help to me and I would like to try to give something back to the community.
Just sat the ASTB-E recently and so thought I would try to provide my insight as to what I found useful, what I thought was superfluous, and what I would recommend avoiding or not doing.
I would very much recommend picking up one or two of the review books and working your way through the practice tests. Frankly, the ASTB-E was significantly different from what I had been expecting on the basis of the sorts of questions I had seen in the practice tests, but they are nevertheless good for getting you into the right mindset to do mental arithmetic quickly. I will confess that I was somewhat cavalier about reading comprehension and found the reading comprehension in the ASTB-E to be surprisingly challenging. I attribute this however not to any inherent incapability to comprehend texts, but rather the nature of the ASTB questions. I felt that they required you to deduce a fair bit of information in a rather formal manner, complicated by the fact that nearly all of the 'texts' seemed to be written in a very bureaucratic and dense fashion. The subject matter also tended to revolve around Navy HR issues and the like, so I don't think it was terribly easy to quickly and rapidly understand what the texts were saying. But alas, perhaps I would have felt differently if I had done more prep to get my brain into that mode? I don't know. I would also very much recommend going on Khan Academy and brushing up on your basic algebra skills (e.g. working with literal equations, working monomials, binomials, polynomials, quadratics, factoring, as well as being able to work comfortably with radicals and exponents (including fractional and negative exponents). I got several questions on the math section asking me to simplify radicals and I'm very glad that I was comfortable doing so. You might also look into logarithms, as I had read on many fora that log questions figured prominently - but I did not get even one on my test. I'm still glad I had taken the time to learn more about logarithms since this is good math knowledge regardless of its utility to help you on the test, but of course here we are concerned with getting the most bang for the least buck. I wouldn't say leave it off, but it did not seem on my test to have had any utility at all. My math test was ended before the full time allotment was used up, by the way.
I would definitely also recommend familiarising yourself with basic concepts in physics. There's an old book published by the Bureau of Naval Personnel called 'Basic Machines and How they Work' - covers pretty much all you would need to know, but it would also hurt to continue to learn some general scientific and physical concepts. Frankly, the information required to complete the 'mechanical comprehension' section effectively was very, very broad, and was not at all like what I was expecting from the practice tests. I think I may have had overall only two questions about levers and mechanical advantage. Not honestly sure how I could have better prepared for this other than to just be generally aware of major ideas in basic physics.
Naval and aviation information section ... this was not hard. It definitely did ask some questions about aircraft types (e.g. what was the best known dive bomber used by the USN in WWII?) which I wasn't expecting so much as I was expecting questions about aerodynamics and the like, but alas.
As for what I thought was superfluous ... well, I think I honestly massively overprepared for the math section. I too got a weird question about writing digits in something other than base 10, but it wasn't hard, and I don't think you could have really 'studied' very well for it. Likewise, I didn't get that many
'pure' math questions other than some questions about number properties (e.g. given that A>0 and B <3, what MUST be true of the following ... followed by various statements testing number properties, basically you would need to be able to identify when a statement must necessarily be true given the premises. Know your rules about positive and negative integers and how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide them, and what happens when you do this). I also got lots of questions about radicals, exponents, and fractional exponents. I think studying too much for the pure math may be inefficient, given the number of Qs you will get. With that being said, I was lucky that I had been brushing up on my algebra for quite some time before hand (for reasons other than the ASTB), so take from that what you will...
I will say, word problems featured very heavily and they were not at all easy. They did not follow the 'expected' pattern or types of questions the prep books will lead you to believe will appear, so be prepared. I would suggest you be very comfortable working with fractions and percentages as many of the questions gave you various scores for tests, then asked you what the final two tests scores would have to be, given various limitations/parameters (e.g. the 4th test score is 9/8 of 2/3 of the 3rd test score) to get a given average e.g. J scored an 82, an 85, and an 89. If his 4th test is 5/6 of the average of the first 3 scores, what must the 5th score be for his average score to be a 78?). Given enough time, I'm sure most of us could work this out, but it seems pretty intimidating in the test setting and certainly required several calculations to get to the right answer. Just be sure you are confident working with fractions and percentages.
As for timing, honestly, I don't know what to recommend here. I worked as quickly as I could but I likewise made sure to work through my problems as best as I could. I wasn't sure if I was taking too long or too little time. I think I was stopped about 10-12 minutes before the allotted time. I think you just have to go with your gut here. Don't waste time but don't skip questions and blindly guess just because they look intimidating.
PBMs ... these were actually pretty good fun. I honestly dont know how I could have better prepared for this. I played MS flight sim a bit and that kind of helped me train my brain to focus on various pieces of info at the same time, but the thinking is not entirely analogous to what is tested. As other folks have said on this site, make sure to use the nav flashcards you can find on the internet. There is likewise the ability to do the practice test in the APEX system repeatedly. I think I did pretty well but definitely missed a few and just lost my orientation. the most difficult ones for me were when you were told the UAV was heading in a diagonal direction (if you can call it that i.e. you were going NE, SE, SW, or NW). just practice the flashcards alot.
As for the other things, I really dont think the dichotic listening test was at all hard. You'll just have to give it your best here. I will say that the actual aircraft tracking is bloody hard and I thought I had done very poorly at the end of the test. If you have taken the AFOQT ... it is basically the same as the TBAS. Playing videogames might have prepared me well for this (especially FPS) but suffice it to say that I did not do much of that.
Overall, the test was easier than I was expecting. I was very intimidated by what I had read on here. Don't be too afraid. It's not easy, but it certainly isn't terribly difficult either. Just make sure you feel comfortable going in and don't skimp on preparation. At the same time however, don't waste 3 months doing 3 hours a day of practice tests. I think you are better suited using that time to become more generally familiar with aviation, mathematics, science, and determining whether or not flying really is for you. Best tip I can give you is to just do lots of mental math. DO it in the supermarket. Do it when measuring stuff out with cup measures at home. Get yourself in the habit where you can quickly and accurately perform basic operations. This will take some time if you did not use mathematics alot at university (I did not - but relearning basic math has really got me back into and interest in science and mathematics! so perhaps taking a few months to really familiarise yourself isn't the worst thing. you will be learning aircraft systems, aerodynamics, and about the avionics if you do end up going to flight training, so it can't hurt you at all to get into a more scientific and technical mindset as early as possible). Also give yourself time to prepare. I gather that Navy recruiters want you to take it seriously. Marine OSOs seem to just want you to do the test as quickly as possible and I think this is probably not a good idea for most candidates. So if you have to stand your ground a bit, stand firm, politely decline and explain that you want time to prepare. dont short change yourself and burn up 1 of your 3 chances and make yourself wait 90 more days. more importantly, just smash it out of the park the first time. get it over with.
For what it's worth, I got a 62 8/8/8. Disappointed about that first number but did well enough on the other 3 I guess.
Good luck.
Hi folks, many thanks for all of the synopses and study guides. First take today: 68 9/7/8.
Only thing that caught me off guard: a couple of questions about the shirt colors of carrier deck personnel. Just never thought to look at that. I suppose I guessed correctly, though. Going in with a private pilot's license/ Instrument rating will certainly help.
The listening/joystick/throttle tasks are absurd. Apparently I'm not the only one who was pleasantly surprised at my final score.
Only thing that caught me off guard: a couple of questions about the shirt colors of carrier deck personnel. Just never thought to look at that. I suppose I guessed correctly, though. Going in with a private pilot's license/ Instrument rating will certainly help.
The listening/joystick/throttle tasks are absurd. Apparently I'm not the only one who was pleasantly surprised at my final score.
I just spoke with my Officer Recruiter and he told me that the ASTB for Dummies and other ASTB books that can be found at book stores are the best study guides for the ASTB. I have been using ARCOS and the Marine Gouge however and he said they are useless.
What do you guys think? I take the ASTB in 2 weeks.
What do you guys think? I take the ASTB in 2 weeks.
KORhc
Well-Known Member
Study EVERYTHING that you can get your hands on. There is no such thing as being overprepared, it's a lot easier to be under prepared. The resources on this forum is invaluable, if I were you, I would not put it to waste.
I greatly appreciate your reply. I agree 100%
Big things I would say:
Make sure to study for the UAV portion. Since it was only introduced a couple of years ago a lot of the older gouge doesn't cover it and it can trip people up. I attached some practice problems for you.
I also attached a Barron's practice test. You can skip the parts with the planes in the different positions as that is no longer part of the test.
Weird things that study guides don't cover that I saw on the test: Logs, normal probability distributions, counting in binary
Make sure to study for the UAV portion. Since it was only introduced a couple of years ago a lot of the older gouge doesn't cover it and it can trip people up. I attached some practice problems for you.
I also attached a Barron's practice test. You can skip the parts with the planes in the different positions as that is no longer part of the test.
Weird things that study guides don't cover that I saw on the test: Logs, normal probability distributions, counting in binary
PMPT
Well-Known Member
I don't want to say your officer recruiter is full of sh!t, but I have found the ARCOs and Marine Gouge to be pretty good guides. honestly though, one thing we need to keep in mind about the ASTB-E versus the old paper version of the paper version of the AFOQT is that, from what I gather (and in my experience) it is way, way more unpredictable than it used to be, and so the study guides only really provide a very basic foundation to work from these days. as I understand it, the pool of questions drawn from these days is just too broad to be able to generalize to any degree of accuracy in the study guides. it is after all a test of aptitude, so aside from the PBMs, the best advice I can give you is to be able to do basic algebra well and be comfortable manipulating equations and finding unknown in literal equations. I cannot recommend the book 'Forgotten Algebra' enough. however, you are not realistically going to work through this in 2 weeks, so perhaps the best chance you have at this stage is to just devour as much as you can.
i don't know what the circumstances are (if you only just learned about the ASTB and have been given 2 weeks to prepare), but I have to say that I think sometimes these officer recruiters just need to be told 'no'. it is your career that you care about, not ensuring that the O recruiter makes his mission. mine wanted me to come in on very short notice and take it and frankly, I just told him I had no intention of coming in unprepared. cue a bit of tension, but sorry guy, I've heard you on your conference calls and I don't care about you making mission more than I care about preparing well and getting a good score (which I mercifully did in the end). I wonder if there is a reason (beyond the potentially obvious) why USMC candidates have such a hard time getting passing scores on the ASTB. Part of me thinks it might be because the OSOs shove them into the test far too quickly. I have heard anecdotal evidence that navy recruiters advise candidates to take far more time preparing.
in addition to taking as many practice tests as you can (and ensuring that you understand why you got answers wrong), I would seriously recommend checking out the biggest stickied threads in the ASTB sub-forum. a lot of guys have posted example qs from the exam and frankly I even saw a few of them come up on my test! so I was slightly mentally prepared beforehand and this made the whole experience a bit less stressful for me, meaning I could focus more on getting the problems right rather than freaking out and hearing my heart pounding in my ears.
take heed of what Hopeful Hoya says. I used his gouge and found it very helpful. he's a very resourceful guy and, on the basis of his scores, can clearly be taken as knowing what he is talking about.
PMPT
Well-Known Member
also, make sure you do some critical reading practice. I was a bit arrogant and blew this off because I thought I would fly through it but it was honestly surprisingly quite difficult. the texts are largely incredibly dry and seem to be from navy regs. this was hard for me even as someone who in a prior life spent a significant degree of time poring through legislation and case law, the dullest of the dull ... I regret to say that I am quite sure the CR section brought down what otherwise would have been a very respectable OAR.
PMPT
Well-Known Member
re logarithms: i wasted a huge amount of time studying these, as I didn't even get a single one on my test. however, being familiar with them will certainly help, and if you have the time, I would certainly recommend it solely for the ability to better understand exponentiation (as well as, of course, the wide and varied use of the logarithm in mathematics). but i would advise candidates with limited time to make efficient use of what they have. if I recall correctly, the binary problem isn't even necessarily a correct rendition of counting in base-n (where n != 10), and almost certainly gives enough info to be able to figure the problem out even if you didn't know or understand what base-2 was. that being said, as with my general recommendation to prepare yourself as far out as possible and to accustom yourself to as much math and physics as you reasonably can (you don't need to be reading feynman's lectures on physics in toto but there's a good element of physics in flying and aeronautics, and so the sooner you get comfortable with the basic concepts, the better), do as much math as you can at the algebra 1 level.
Strange that you didn't see one, I had at least 3 or 4 questions about logs.
Yeah you didn't need to count in base 2 for the binary, it just asked what the number 4 was in binary (100).
You don't need to spend a whole lot of time on either topic, just memorize the basic rules of logs and understand how to count in binary to 10. I agree that you definitely need to understand the basic algebra and word problems, but for me once I had that done I moved on to some of the more niche things that can pop up, especially when you get into the higher difficulty questions.
Yeah you didn't need to count in base 2 for the binary, it just asked what the number 4 was in binary (100).
You don't need to spend a whole lot of time on either topic, just memorize the basic rules of logs and understand how to count in binary to 10. I agree that you definitely need to understand the basic algebra and word problems, but for me once I had that done I moved on to some of the more niche things that can pop up, especially when you get into the higher difficulty questions.