• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

A-10's For The Marine Corps

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
...On station time and no line of sight issues. Is the Hawkeye going to come - land, and pick up a Marine Capt to be the AMC? I doubt it...Where were the Hawkeyes during the opening days of OIF? Controlling the BILLIONS of assets doing DAS.

Well, you see, that's the point. The E-2 didn't do DASC(A) until after the opening days of OIF 1, and the guys were seriously underemployed and looking for a mission. It's something we've been learning to do since, but we're getting pretty adept at it.

Does the Corps consider only a Marine capable of being the AMC? Not a sarcastic question, I'm really curious. Because E-2 folks aren't just procedural controllers, and you don't need a qualified JTAC to hand assets off to a JTAC. That being said, it's not like we have a jumpseat for an extra body. But take up your radio and tell us where you need bombs...we'll make sure you get 'em. :D
 

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
I really think we need a DASC(A) package for the Osprey put it in the back go to 10K loiter and talk. Be a nice asset for the MEU.
 

SemperGumbi

Just a B guy.
pilot
-2 Engines vs 1
-Precision strike does indeed exist on the A-10C (LITENING AT and SNIPER XR)
-Up armor and more survivable flight control system
-Uglier

Let the hazing commence

The relative targetting (as I understand it, and correct as necessary please) where you can get a real-time precision strike with the integrated system is a pretty big plus. Basically being your own targeter (in terms of coordinates) and getting the coordinates for the strike, yes?

Can you all link said target? If not, is it on the way?

I remember the Harrier guys talking about how they were doing the targetting and thinking, "Thats the way a system SHOULD work..."
 

HackerF15E

Retired Strike Pig Driver
None
The F-15E is an awesome bird. However, in a real crunch when you need CAS, most of the guys are worthless. When a target goes bad and you immediately clear the Es inbound for guns, I got "We just use those for air-to-air". Really, that's not what your 100 slide capabilities brief said. Been much 1 V 1 around these parts the last 6 years?Would've been nice to know before hand.

Well, I've gotta clear the air a little here.

The gun in the F-15E is canted upward 2 degrees. It was designed that way for air-to-air gunnery where your target is usually above you. That's a system limitation that we can't control.

The upcant is a problem when you want to point that gun at the dirt, because your flight path has to be steeper than the angle which the gun is pointing. Compounding that problem is our speed, and the need to shoot from a close-ish range that gives the bullet the end-game energy it needs to fuze and penetrate. The combination of these three factors -- gun upcant, high speed on the pass, and need for close firing slant-ranges -- require a high degree of precision to pull off correctly, else we end up planting ourselves in the dirt.

It's a cultural issue, too -- you're right about that. When I went through the basic upgrade course 10 years ago, I was told by my instructors, "The F-15E will never strafe." Sure enough, in 2002 an ex-Hog pilot flying an F-15E happened to be on station over Roberts Ridge, and had to whip out the gun in order to keep some Rangers alive. Ever since then, the F-15E community has worked to change strafe from a contingency into a primary weapon. Today it is a bread-and-butter weapon that most pilots should be comfortable employing.

Now, if in 2007 or 2008 you have F-15E guys telling you that they only use the gun for air-to-air, and say they are unable to use it in a CAS scenario, that's a load of crapola. My squadron strafed more 20mm last summer in Afghanistan than the entire US military combined strafed in both OEF and OIF (over 25,000 rounds). You're right that it probably varies from squadron-to-squadron. There is still leadership who is literally gun-shy about using the pistol because it is a challenging weapon for us to employ. Those opinions are few and far between these days, fortunately.

I apologize for my community if a F-15E squadron you have been working with fails to be able to use the gun in a timely and effective manner. That's UNSAT in my book, and makes my airframe look bad.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
I really think we need a DASC(A) package for the Osprey put it in the back go to 10K loiter and talk. Be a nice asset for the MEU.

I'm sure Bell-Boeing has an artist's concept worked up, with a proposed cost of a gazillion dollars a copy.
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
The F/A-18's gun is also canted up 2 deg for the same reason as the F-15's. Strafing is a cultural issue, no doubt ... question for you Hacker, when is strafing first introduced to Strike Eagle dudes? We are taught strafing in the RAG and about half the time we went out to the range to drop ordnance, we were carrying BB's in our nose.

side note, I noticed the Summer 08 AF Weapons Review had a couple good articles on FAC(A) and CAS.

fly safe,

S/F

Well, I've gotta clear the air a little here.

The gun in the F-15E is canted upward 2 degrees. It was designed that way for air-to-air gunnery where your target is usually above you. That's a system limitation that we can't control. ........
 

jarhead

UAL CA; retired hinge
pilot
I agree, it would be a good asset to the MEU.

Phrog, have you heard any talk about it? The mission seems like it would be a good fit for the Osprey.

I'm sure Bell-Boeing has an artist's concept worked up, with a proposed cost of a gazillion dollars a copy.

I really think we need a DASC(A) package for the Osprey put it in the back go to 10K loiter and talk. Be a nice asset for the MEU.
 

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
I'm sure it's been that way since the beginning, but at least changing it wouldn't be a giant red-ass like other platforms. After all, a pod doesn't require a complete redesign...
That post begs the question wrt the F-35B/C "missionized" gun pod. I had always taken that to mean that you could fly with or without the gun depending on mission, I wonder if that also means that one could cant up or cant down the gun depending on mission.
 

NozeMan

Are you threatening me?
pilot
Super Moderator
That post begs the question wrt the F-35B/C "missionized" gun pod. I had always taken that to mean that you could fly with or without the gun depending on mission, I wonder if that also means that one could cant up or cant down the gun depending on mission.

Doesn't there have to be progress with the program to come up with an answer like that? ;)


A more generic question: how much trigger time do you get out of the pod on the A-10, Harrier, F-15E, and F-35?
 
Top