And much of this is driven by shipbuilding jobs....
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Carrier Leadership
- Thread starter Charles Edward
- Start date
danpass
Well-Known Member
"11" is in there. There is hope ...
To what end?
And if it weren't for McNamara, we'd have had the A2F-2Q Prowler . . . designations are partly political.
Does it really matter how we address it other than nostalgia and esoteric?
Wikipedia will tell you that LHD stands for Landing Helicopter Dock and LHA stands for Landing Helicopter Assault. But the official title of an LHD is a Multipurpose Amphibious Assault Ship, abbreviated, of course as LHA. The difference between an LHD and a Tarawa class LHA was minimal. The difference between LHA-8 and LHD-8 will be minimal as well. If you moored them next to each other an untrained eye would be hard pressed to tell them apart.
That's how I first felt when I saw F-8s and A-7s.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Who use LH ships as a carriers? First of all, no other navy in the world has something similar to LHA/LHD - of 40 kT, able to carry up to 2 whole squadrons of VSTOL aircraft at the price of helos, plus having well dock, and all of this is just a serving facilities for the Marines, including eagles on the collar of Navy CO. How many NAVY aircraft are embarking usually on LHA/LHD? Two to four SH-60s, right? USN LHA/LHD makes no sense alone or in pair as a core of any other national navy, as no other navy except USN has something similar to USMC. Second, look at the Brits - while up to a third aircraft embarked on HMS Ocean, a closest peer for USN LHs, are of RAF, the other third belongs to British Army, and there still isn't fixed wings among the whole air group. How do you suppose RN can use this ship as an "aircraft carrier"?
I was thinking more along the lines of the British Invincible-class, the Italian Cavour and Giuseppe Garibaldi and the Spanish Juan Carlos I (which actually has a well deck and space for ~1000 marines) which all could be utilized as LPH/LHA's and often have but their primary role was/is light aircraft carriers. That flexibility is needed if you only have 1-4 flattops but not so much when you have over 20.
The Royal Marines have their own dedicated air support element, the Commando Helicopter Force, but it is run by the Royal Navy and not the Marines since they aren't a separate service like they are here.
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And they did in OIF, but we rarely utilize them in that mission.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Yes, right, but three Invinsibles and a Garibaldi were ASW carriers from the scratch, with then-fashioned "tailored" air groups built around ASW choppers (Italian design had no VSTOL capability - iron deck - up to 1989). Aimed to hunt the Soviet subs, both classes even considered the sea-skimming cruise missiles' installation just like DDs: Exocet MM38 on Brits (not really but with reserved platforms on fo'c'les) and OTOMat on Eye-Tea ship (actually installed). If Soviet sub is damaged by air attack and forced to surface, those missiles were the weapon to kill her. And LH-abilities of those ships were seriously restricted - only moderated places for light infantry troops, with no artillery, no APC, no armor to beach. Two newer ships from your list, oppositely, are mostly LHAs, while both are able to support VSTOL ops. But I doubt that Harriers of both these navies (Italian and Spain) are good choice for something other than CAS.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Indeed, but among the crews of helicopters of 845, 846 and 847 naval air squadrons are the Royal Marine officers and even NCOs, both as pilots and observers. I was amazed when saw the RM Colour Sergeant as a pilot of the Linx AH7 gunship of 847 NAS (aircraft nominally loaned from the British Army), where the observer (co-pilot/gunner) was Lt or even LtCdr, Royal Navy - when they hunted the Iraqi armor in 2003. But my point was rather that USMC can be viewed as separate military force that as a branch has all any national armed forces can boast - infantry, artillery, armor, air, and even gator fleet. Definitely, USN LHAs/LHDs are such as the US Marines want them to be - when it is clear that sky ramp, just like on STOBAR carriers or noted Invincible-class, as well as on Cavour and Juan Carlos I, can sufficiently improve the Harriers' payload for CAS or BAI, it would eliminate up to three helo spots on the flight deck, which is unacceptable from the Marine generals' point, as the main aim of the ships is the amphib assault.
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Charles Edward
Member
So, basically the aviators who eventually command carriers receive training, formally and informally, to learn to drive a ship? If so, would this typically happen after a squadron CO tour? Where is such a course provided and how long is it?
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
To me, it seems that the core training "how to drive a ship" is providing during so-called "deep draft" tour, i.e. when the selected NA/NFO is given a command of some USNS ship/vessel: roughly the same types of maneuvering and seamanship that CVN/LHx is intended to use. Brits went deeply - their naval aviators after the squadron CO's tour are given the command either MCM or FF, while their previous surface experience is about a year at best as JOOW.
Holy detailed questions Batman! Am I the only one getting paranoid here?