NEWS Air Force leadership talks frankly about pilot retention

[Hotdogs]

Didn't mean to unintentionally open the awards bitching thread. It's just a tongue in cheek remark about self gratiutous back patting with no real measurement of actual effectiveness behind said action. Kind of like most squadron level administrative inspection programs or summer safety stand down/BITS training regimens.

 

[Pags]

Didn't mean to unintentionally open the awards bitching thread. It's just a tongue in cheek remark about self gratiutous back patting with no real measurement of actual effectiveness behind said action. Kind of like most squadron level administrative inspection programs or summer safety stand down/BITS training regimens.

Without the 100 days of summer stand down no one would survive the summer. Itd be a blood bath.

 

[Gatordev]

The favorite this week was the Operational Pause....while trying to plan for an operational deployment ISO of DSCA. The irony was not lost on anyone.

 

[bert]

True, but I do wonder if some of this is an aviation vs other community culture thing. When I see O-4s walking around with MSMs or DMSMs, and O-3s with JCMs and NCMs, it puzzles me. Because I know that would never fly in Naval Air absent unusual circumstances (not that we'd be giving out joint awards, but my point remains).

Or maybe I've just noticed that purple squirrel who got it for unusual circumstances; I don't know.

It used to be that an NCM was a standard EOT award for LTs who were leaving with an EP (both at my first squadron and at the RAG). I think that changed in the early 2000s?

 

[Brett327]

It used to be that an NCM was a standard EOT award for LTs who were leaving with an EP (both at my first squadron and at the RAG). I think that changed in the early 2000s?

Truth. I got an EOT NCM as a First Class in '98. It was presented to me in OCS, DIs taking full advantage, of course. Times have changed.

 

[Flash]

It used to be that an NCM was a standard EOT award for LTs who were leaving with an EP (both at my first squadron and at the RAG). I think that changed in the early 2000s?

We only had two JO's leave with an NCM in my first squadron, one had rewritten our NATOPS and the other was a Intel O who had scammed her way into getting it. All of the folks left with NAM's, I think that was also the standard in my second squadron. So definitely not the standard across the fleet.

 

[jtmedli]

We only had two JO's leave with an NCM in my first squadron, one had rewritten our NATOPS and the other was a Intel O who had scammed her way into getting it. All of the folks left with NAM's, I think that was also the standard in my second squadron. So definitely not the standard across the fleet.

FWIW, our CAG wouldn't sign NCMs for JOs. Pretty much all got NAMs as EOT awards.

 

[robav8r]

FWIW, our CAG wouldn't sign NCMs for JOs. Pretty much all got NAMs as EOT awards.

I can understand an NCM for the #1 EP as an incentive, but that's it.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Everyday, I am shocked & amazed at the awards I see on very, junior folks running around the Pentagon these days. The latest? An AF E6 with a Defense, MSM. I have seen MSM's on Navy LT's and CPO's as well. Amazing . . . .

In my civilian career I worked with a former AF Captain who as an O-2 received a BSM as an admin officer for keeping records in order while deployed to the middle east, WTH.

I remember the standard for our Department deployment awards was the following: E-6 and below LOC, CPO's and LT's NAM's, Principal Assistants would get NCM.

 

[hscs]

Maybe I am out to lunch - but for Os, I don't see awards as having a huge effect on promoting/ selection at a screen board. Take the first tour JO that gets a #1 EP - will a board really care if they got a NCM or NAM? I don't think so. They care about the #1 EP. Same thing for DH - a MSM for a 1 month #1EP vs a NCM for a 12 month #1 EP. The long EP will get the nod every time.

 

[magnetfreezer]

Maybe I am out to lunch - but for Os, I don't see awards as having a huge effect on promoting/ selection at a screen board. Take the first tour JO that gets a #1 EP - will a board really care if they got a NCM or NAM? I don't think so. They care about the #1 EP. Same thing for DH - a MSM for a 1 month #1EP vs a NCM for a 12 month #1 EP. The long EP will get the nod every time.

On the AF O side, it's more used as a negative indicator/signal - a FGO who gets no medal, or an achievement medal for a PCS will raise questions as to why.

 

[DanMa1156]

On the AF O side, it's more used as a negative indicator/signal - a FGO who gets no medal, or an achievement medal for a PCS will raise questions as to why.

That's pathetic. To this day, I stand proud that I stuck up to my XO who wanted to give a terrible Sailor a LOC at the end of his tour "just so he has to stand up there, be surprised and embarrassed that's all he got, and send a message to the boards to not pick him up for promotion." I looked him dead in the eye and told him that that's petty, and we as a Navy shouldn't be using awards to make people feel ashamed and that it would only make other Sailors who had been given mid-tour LOC's feel like theirs were meaningless. I was surprised and delighted to see all the O-4's at the award board back me up, and XO and CMC back down.

 

[pourts]

That's pathetic. To this day, I stand proud that I stuck up to my XO who wanted to give a terrible Sailor a LOC at the end of his tour "just so he has to stand up there, be surprised and embarrassed that's all he got, and send a message to the boards to not pick him up for promotion." I looked him dead in the eye and told him that that's petty, and we as a Navy shouldn't be using awards to make people feel ashamed and that it would only make other Sailors who had been given mid-tour LOC's feel like theirs were meaningless. I was surprised and delighted to see all the O-4's at the award board back me up, and XO and CMC back down.

So, you guys gave him nothing? If so, I concur.

 

[DanMa1156]

So, you guys gave him nothing? If so, I concur.

Yeah, nothing. Which, I still think is better than something that was:
a) to specifically shame him in front of his peers at quarters ("look at that! Holy cow! They gave a guy an EOT LOC!" instead of letting him fade into the background and leave the command)
b) specifically designed to be a "fake" award

Getting no award sends a message to the board plenty fine. Making what's a legitimate award (the Skipper's commendation) designed to insult someone is pathetic.

 

[jtmedli]

I can understand an NCM for the #1 EP as an incentive, but that's it.

That was pretty much what we were doing until CAG said no more.