USN DH bonus

[sevenhelmet]

Just a word of caution, those are 15 year Captain numbers. Just because things are good now doesn't mean they will be in 2, 3, or 5 years. The money and QOL are solid, but from what I understand job security isn't, at least for the first little bit. The Navy might ask you to do something ridiculous, but they will give you a paycheck (most of the time, anyway... I'm looking at you, Congress!)

That said, I'd seriously consider the majors if I were on the fence right now. I am personally not counting on it, since I am committed to the Navy for at least 3 more years.

 

[SlickAg]

Just a word of caution, those are 15 year Captain numbers. Just because things are good now doesn't mean they will be in 2, 3, or 5 years. The money and QOL are solid, but from what I understand job security isn't, at least for the first little bit. The Navy might ask you to do something ridiculous, but they will give you a paycheck (most of the time, anyway... I'm looking at you, Congress!)

That said, I'd seriously consider the majors if I were on the fence right now. I am personally not counting on it, since I am committed to the Navy for at least 3 more years.

15 year narrow body CA numbers. Wide body CA would be even higher. Also, our 12 year WB FO pay is only $40/hour less than 12 year NB CA pay.

Just because things in the Navy are bad now, where will they be in 2, 3, or 5 years? Can it get much worse? The money is okay I guess, the QOL isn't, broken jets, no parts, no flight time. Sure the job security is good but you could work super hard on your DH tour, get an EP, and still not make O-5. A lot of it may depend on how much you get along with your front office vice your actual performance or other tangibles. The Navy will ask you to spend a lot of time away from your family, and when you ARE physically located in Lemoore, you'll spend more of your hours awake at work than you will at home. And naval aviation is possibly only one more sequestration away from being close to perma-broken. But at least there isn't a retention problem to deal with. Oh wait...

 

[sevenhelmet]

Sure. I'm just advising caution for those who (like me) may have years to go before getting out- the hiring picture will probably change between now and then. I'd personally hate to get out, work for a year or two, then get furloughed right as I started to feel solid. That's arguably going to be more of a risk 3+ years from now than it is today. But it's always going to be a risk, just like not making O-5 and/or being sent to hand out basketballs at the Pentagon gym is a risk of staying in.

It's an individual decision which risk/reward is better. Seems to make sense to try and understand all the angles.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Sure. I'm just advising caution for those who (like me) may have years to go before getting out- the hiring picture will probably change between now and then. I'd personally hate to get out, work for a year or two, then get furloughed right as I started to feel solid. That's arguably going to be more of a risk 3+ years from now than it is today. But it's always going to be a risk, just like not making O-5 and/or being sent to hand out basketballs at the Pentagon gym is a risk of staying in.

It's an individual decision which risk/reward is better. Seems to make sense to try and understand all the angles.

If you want to lessen your risk, an active duty O-4 retirement is worth about $46K per year. An O-5 reservist with 6100 points (not that tough as you will have 3650 points after 10 years of active duty - about 136 points per year from years 11 through 28 will get you to 6100) will retire at age 60 with the same $46K per year. Thus if you decide to roll the dice with the airlines (and it certainly looks good), you can stay reserves and still have that O-4 retirement waiting on you at age 60 (which gets here quicker than you would imagine.). Also, the reserves are a great security blanket in the event of a furlough.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Sure. I'm just advising caution for those who (like me) may have years to go before getting out- the hiring picture will probably change between now and then. I'd personally hate to get out, work for a year or two, then get furloughed right as I started to feel solid. That's arguably going to be more of a risk 3+ years from now than it is today. But it's always going to be a risk, just like not making O-5 and/or being sent to hand out basketballs at the Pentagon gym is a risk of staying in.

It's an individual decision which risk/reward is better. Seems to make sense to try and understand all the angles.

Three years from now will be reaching the peak of retirements. I don't have a crystal ball, but it would take something very serious to stop hiring or especially to cause a furlough. Even then, it would only slow things down. Those pilots aren't going to get younger.

 

[zippy]

Three years from now will be reaching the peak of retirements. I don't have a crystal ball, but it would take something very serious to stop hiring or especially to cause a furlough. Even then, it would only slow things down. Those pilots aren't going to get younger.

Thankfully are plenty of folks out there who've done research on the subject... here's an interesting product covering it.

http://www.cae.com/uploadedFiles/Co...n/CAE-Airline-Pilot-Demand-Outlook-Spread.pdf

 

[FrankTheTank]

Sure. I'm just advising caution for those who (like me) may have years to go before getting out- the hiring picture will probably change between now and then. I'd personally hate to get out, work for a year or two, then get furloughed right as I started to feel solid. That's arguably going to be more of a risk 3+ years from now than it is today. But it's always going to be a risk, just like not making O-5 and/or being sent to hand out basketballs at the Pentagon gym is a risk of staying in.

It's an individual decision which risk/reward is better. Seems to make sense to try and understand all the angles.

Yes... But... You will also lose 3 years of seniority and furlough buffer... I'm not here to judge.. But they're are many more cogs in the wheel than just cash.. I am just a few months from year 14 pay at FedEx. And my buds that stayed have been hitting the line over the last year or two.. And what my seniority can do in regards to bidding, vacation and yes cash are not even close! My June 15th pay stub has me already over 150k for the year.. I get 4 weeks vacation. (174 hours). That's 2 full months and some extra off or with some strategy and bidding 3-4 months..

You have to do what's right for you and your family and before you do make the jump, get in contact with a variety of senorities and commuters/locals to get more than "new hire" answers.. The airlines is a marathon but when you enter the race makes all the difference!

 

[xj220]

One thing sevenhelmet is dealing with (and myself) is that we have our TPS commitment of four years but with three year orders to our test tour squadrons. The possibility of extending then getting out is not there so we have to either take a program office job or something else for a year (most likely not flying) and bail quickly. Or we take a DH tour with flying, etc but then it extends us another couple years. We knew that going in but it still complicates matters.

 

[FrankTheTank]

One thing sevenhelmet is dealing with (and myself) is that we have our TPS commitment of four years but with three year orders to our test tour squadrons. The possibility of extending then getting out is not there so we have to either take a program office job or something else for a year (most likely not flying) and bail quickly. Or we take a DH tour with flying, etc but then it extends us another couple years. We knew that going in but it still complicates matters.

I believe that is the proverbial between a rock and hard place.. Personally I wouldn't worry about the currency as much as availability.. You can't get hired if you ain't available... You should be very marketable for the reserves and could get current there while working (insert job) to pay the bills.. It would have been a tough decision for me with nobody really hiring after 911 but with the S-3 sundown and being in a year group ('93) not able to apply for transition the decision was made for me.. I have since 5 years old wanted to fly airplanes. I managed to do that. I wasn't willing to give that up but take my chances on the airlines and drill to fly.. Fortunately, I got the call and it worked out..

 

[sevenhelmet]

One thing sevenhelmet is dealing with (and myself) is that we have our TPS commitment of four years but with three year orders to our test tour squadrons. The possibility of extending then getting out is not there so we have to either take a program office job or something else for a year (most likely not flying) and bail quickly. Or we take a DH tour with flying, etc but then it extends us another couple years. We knew that going in but it still complicates matters.

In the sense securing an airline job in 2017, it might. But there are other great jobs out there. This isn't the only place I've been asking questions about civilian employment.

I believe that is the proverbial between a rock and hard place.. Personally I wouldn't worry about the currency as much as availability.. You can't get hired if you ain't available... You should be very marketable for the reserves and could get current there while working (insert job) to pay the bills.. It would have been a tough decision for me with nobody really hiring after 911 but with the S-3 sundown and being in a year group ('93) not able to apply for transition the decision was made for me.. I have since 5 years old wanted to fly airplanes. I managed to do that. I wasn't willing to give that up but take my chances on the airlines and drill to fly.. Fortunately, I got the call and it worked out..

I would only agree if my intention was 100% to get out now. However, I very intentionally took DH orders after my test tour. As odd as it'll sound to some of you grass-is-greener types, I am where I want to be and not looking to get out of the Navy... yet. But it's going to happen eventually, and I want that to be on my own terms. Might as well be informed.

 

[Farva01]

Thanks for everyone that took a look at the draft. I am going live with a survey to collect data on the bonus. The main data I am looking at is contract length and amount. I am emailing it out to all FRS's and training commands on Monday morning. I would like some help spreading the link from people on here as well. Here is the info:

This survey is not sponsored by PERS-43 or the Navy. I am a current active duty officer seeking to translate the conversations I hear in the ready room on a daily basis into actual data.

I have attempted to reach as wide an audience as possible, primarily Navy pilots and NFOs in the year groups whose Active Duty Service Obligation (ASDO) expires in FY-17 and beyond. Feel free to share this survey with your coworkers and friends in the ready room.

My goal is to take this data to BUPERS in an effort to increase the amount of the bonus and the flexibility in contract lengths. However, if the data does not support it, I will let it die here in the survey.

I understand that multiple choice questions may not cover your situation exactly. If you have any amplifying info or ideas that are not covered in the survey, please feel free to send me an email at adhrbsurvey@gmail.com.

All data and information will remain confidential and anonymous.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ADHRBsurvey

 

[FlyNavy123]

Occasional poster here posting on an alternate account to prevent tipping my hand to anybody that might know me.

I am a pilot about a year from completing a DH tour, currently at 12 years of service. I (perhaps naively) took the bonus, but there is some verbiage in the contracts that allow you to resign upon completion of DH tour. I expect to complete my DH tour as a #1 or #2 EP and would hopefully screen for O-5 (this year's bloodbath of a board notwithstanding). I've decided that I have done everything I want to accomplish as a URL; the ambiguity of post-DH orders and an O-5 sea tour aren't super appealing to me to finish out 20, particularly given my family situation (small children, high income spouse that values geographic stability for employment). The challenge of Command has never been an aspiration of mine, although I am on a track where it may be an option. I am considering resigning upon completion of my DH tour (13+ years of service), and making the jump immediately to the airlines. Based on the current outlook of the industry and recent hiring trends, I SHOULD be fine to jump straight to a major. Obviously there is some risk in making that assumption, but even if the airlines don't work out I have enough qualifications to be employable in the civilian sector, aviation or otherwise.

The plan would be to affiliate in the reserves and finish up 20 in either SELRES (understand possibly not an option due to seniority) or IRR.

So essentially, am I crazy to resign probably 5 months before screening for O-5? My major concern with rolling the dice with post DH orders to pin on O-5 would be:

1) Getting non-flying orders and losing currency, making myself less employable in the civilian sector.
2) Post-DH orders taking me somewhere spouse cannot work.
3) Completing post-DH orders would take me to 15.5 years, and likely make me feel trapped by the golden handcuffs of the pension.
4) Huge loss of seniority for the airlines

Appreciate any thought, insight or advice from the crowd!

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'm confused at how you are 12 yrs service and at the end of a DH tour........is that a helo/maritime standard?

edit: never mind, you said a year prior, and I suppose 15 yrs at the end of post DH tour is fleet avg

 

[EODDave]

FlyNavy123,

First of all you need to do what is best for you and your family. You have given the Navy and the country more time of your life than most. Just know this, you (and everyone else) are just another number to the bureau. They will send you where they need you. Period, dot. If it happens to line up with what you want, great. If not, well, they are called orders for a reason. No one is irrereplacable in the Navy and it will keep doing its thing with you or without you. So, I say again, do what is in YOUR best interest.

As I am transitioning now, the key factor for the majors is currency. If your current in fixed wing and don't completely blow the interview process, then you are good to go (some caveats). If you go to a non flying tour and then get out, you just bought yourself 1-3 years at a feeder to get current. There is lots of info for Gold Wingers out there if you are interested in going to the airlines. PM me and we can chat about it.

There is also a large contingent of guys flying for an airline and doing reserve VFC, VT, etc. flying. One reason is to get the points toward reserve retirement, the other is for the fun if it.

Anyway, it's a hard choice. But as a friend told me. If you are staying in the Navy for the retirement $$, do the math. You will see that you are leaving a good deal of money on the table. You already know seniority at the airlines is huge. If you are going to jump, then do it as soon as you can.

Be aware that if the Navy PCS's you after your DH Tour and incurs a cost, you will owe the Navy 2 years to the day at your new location.

 

[Gatordev]

There is also a large contingent of guys flying for an airline and doing reserve VFC, VT, etc. flying. One reason is to get the points toward reserve retirement, the other is for the fun if it.

The OP isn't going to be competitive for a hardware unit Reserve job because he's too senior. Since I know who the OP is, I'll put it this way: the units he's competitive for are either full or already in high demand. That doesn't mean that one can't be a successful SELRES, it just typically wouldn't be flying.

Otherwise, like you said, do what's best for the family/person, as the Navy will do what's best for itself.