-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Iran Detains 10 U.S. Navy Personnel
- Thread starter HH-60H
- Start date
Just like a mishap I don't think it is wise to speculate on what exactly happened, let the Navy release what info they deem necessary to the public and let random blogs to the speculating.
I honestly don't even know where to begin with this. Is it an admirable goal? Sure. Is it going to happen in our lifetimes? Very, very doubtful. Is it great DARAPA is working on stuff like this? Sure, that is the their raison d'etre. Will it turn into something operational any time soon? Very, very doubtful.
If we can't stop the 'Filipino Monkey' and whoever else keeps meowing on Channel 16 I don't think we are going to get to 'total RF spectrum dominance' anytime soon.
Well, most of us posting in this thread HAVE been to SERE. I seem to recall a cardinal sin was to admonish a fellow PW who made certain statements or was seen to be possibly fraternizing with the enemy. I was taught to always assume your comrade resisted to the best of their abilities and all were welcomed back into the fold. It is too easy for the enemy to manipulate people, appearances and statements. Above all, those of us privileged to have been afforded sophisticated training cannot demand the same level of performance from those not trained.
Last edited:
These guys were Coastal Riverine Squadron aka RIVRON, part of Navy Expeditionary Combat Command. SBT and SWCC are different and belong to NSW. I won't speculate as to what training they attend except to say it's probably different.
CRS doesn't get SERE. SWCC does.
I have a hard time believing their comms were "jammed" (they were approached by what appears to be a bunch of smallboats, not a warship or aircraft with a high power EA suite) but I also almost don't give a shit if it was...latest Navy reports are that the downed craft remained operable (one engine or generator stayed up). Rig for tow (should take <1 min), steer clear of TTW or head out of TTW if you are in it. From the video, I saw at least one UHF radio loaded, and either a HF or SATCOM (probably SATCOM).
Heard from where? The internet? YGTBSM.
The more I learn about this the more it's going sideways.
SCUTTLEBUT! Alive and well. A naval tradition since........well the beginning of things that float.Heard from where? The internet? YGTBSM.
The real facts about why this happened are still scarce but what is know really does point to a major navigational f$#k-up by the boat crews. This is especially sad because they could downloaded a marine plotter app on their cellphones for free that would have kept them out of trouble.
I did a tour in Coastal Warfare (now NECC) and (at the time, at least) the training and preparation provided by the TYCOM for riverine squadrons was inadequate at best. Of course it was a RC community at the time and is now active duty and I don't know what has changed.
These boats are fairly new CB90's (RCB's) supposedly equipped with late-model Furuno plotters. Don't know whether the plotters (on both boats) were inoperative, there was no one looking at them, or there was something else going on. There are reports that one of the boats was having engine trouble but also reports that wasn't the reason they ended up in Iranian waters. If you are a US Navy crew in a disabled small boat in the Persian Gulf, your number one mission is to avoid ending up in Iran... not sure how they hosed up so badly. I all but positive the Iranians didn't "jam their comms" or whatever to cause this incident. The most important point is the JCPOA goes into effect TODAY... had the Iranians made trouble/caused this incident/not released the sailors, etc, they would risk delay or disruption of the JCPOA, which they see has a major political victory key to their national security.
CDR Salamander and others around the internet have made the likely-accurate point that there was a major failure of leadership by the chain of command that these crews set out to transit from Kuwait to Bahrain and ended up in Iran. There is likely a long list of failures (links in the chain...) that led to this incident. Probably there should be an investigation into the training, preparation, and procedures for operating RCBs in the Persian Gulf and probably several CO's in the chain deserve to be relieved. I suspect, for political reasons, that wont happen. I also suspect that the Coastal Riverine Force has concentrated more on MESF (Maritime Expeditionary Security Force)-style training (ashore security stuff) vs small boat handling and navigation since they were only recently created by the merger with MESF, and that was a contributing factor to this incident.
Finally I don't necessarily fault the Lieutenant for making the apology to the Iranians. He was not a POW, we are not engaged in armed conflict with Iran (today, anyway), so I would say the Code of Conduct does not exactly apply to his statement, and it does look like the incident was his fault. Had it NOT been his fault and he was illegally captured by the Iranians in international waters, then I would agree the Code of Conduct would apply and he should not have made any statement other than as provided by the Code of Conduct.
I did a tour in Coastal Warfare (now NECC) and (at the time, at least) the training and preparation provided by the TYCOM for riverine squadrons was inadequate at best. Of course it was a RC community at the time and is now active duty and I don't know what has changed.
These boats are fairly new CB90's (RCB's) supposedly equipped with late-model Furuno plotters. Don't know whether the plotters (on both boats) were inoperative, there was no one looking at them, or there was something else going on. There are reports that one of the boats was having engine trouble but also reports that wasn't the reason they ended up in Iranian waters. If you are a US Navy crew in a disabled small boat in the Persian Gulf, your number one mission is to avoid ending up in Iran... not sure how they hosed up so badly. I all but positive the Iranians didn't "jam their comms" or whatever to cause this incident. The most important point is the JCPOA goes into effect TODAY... had the Iranians made trouble/caused this incident/not released the sailors, etc, they would risk delay or disruption of the JCPOA, which they see has a major political victory key to their national security.
CDR Salamander and others around the internet have made the likely-accurate point that there was a major failure of leadership by the chain of command that these crews set out to transit from Kuwait to Bahrain and ended up in Iran. There is likely a long list of failures (links in the chain...) that led to this incident. Probably there should be an investigation into the training, preparation, and procedures for operating RCBs in the Persian Gulf and probably several CO's in the chain deserve to be relieved. I suspect, for political reasons, that wont happen. I also suspect that the Coastal Riverine Force has concentrated more on MESF (Maritime Expeditionary Security Force)-style training (ashore security stuff) vs small boat handling and navigation since they were only recently created by the merger with MESF, and that was a contributing factor to this incident.
Finally I don't necessarily fault the Lieutenant for making the apology to the Iranians. He was not a POW, we are not engaged in armed conflict with Iran (today, anyway), so I would say the Code of Conduct does not exactly apply to his statement, and it does look like the incident was his fault. Had it NOT been his fault and he was illegally captured by the Iranians in international waters, then I would agree the Code of Conduct would apply and he should not have made any statement other than as provided by the Code of Conduct.
Although he was not a POW, he was a detainee which has it's own rules and regulations to abide by. Regardless, I don't understand how someone who hasn't been through SERE would know how to conduct themselves in that situation.
I think he had the best intentions, but a little SERE training could have gone a long way. I give him props for acting responsibly and making the safety of his crew a top priority. I also think he had the best intentions of the US in mind until he said "our fault/mistake" (cue collective facepalming). Not his place to make statements like that on foreign media. Suddenly "I totally screwed up as a commander" becomes "The United States made a mistake". There's people who make a living (politicians/diplomats) spinning that kind of language. I'm not even sure what extent we can really get into what he was actually supposed to say, but... dude, do less.
Lots of good stuff in this post from informationdissemination: http://www.informationdissemination.net/2016/01/thoughts-on-farsi-island-incident.html
Great link, thanks. Nice to see some dispassionate, objective analysis - even in the comments section. Refreshing.
Best article I have seen yet on the incident.
I agree that some of the comments aren't bad but some folks just need to STFU like 'ELP', he is an internet gadfly who seems to think he is an expert on everything military because he once he served as a USAF photographer. That expertise is reflected in his claim that "Probably a difference between "fighting" and refusing to be boarded." Or another commenter who thinks because he can use a smartphone to find his way around a neighborhood means the guys on the boats should have been able to do the same. And just like all the GPS/laser ring gyro/INS/gucci Nav gear packed into our planes still doesn't prevent folks from getting the call sign 'Magellan' having a smartphone still doesn't prevent some drivers from getting lost.
Last edited: