V-22 Chosen to be the new COD

[Pags]

By which you mean "work it in between the cycles like every other RW asset on the boat?" I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express; I just stood XR for workups and a cruise. But am I missing something here? Like squorch said, airwings used to be bigger, no?

Worst case, you need to recover your COD det to go blue water. Launch a cycle 15min early, land the plopters while the plane guard is still on station, stuff them, then signal Charlie 15 late. If you put it in the air plan and ensure you have enough gas airborne for the baby Hornets, then nothing is fucked, yes? Assuming that the knock-on effects of crews walking, starting, and such before the launch don't put people in plopter downwash, which I have heard is -53esque? Sipping on bourbon right now, and not really interested in doing air plan math.

The down wash thing is something that the CVN will have to learn to live with. The ACE on the MEU has been managing to maintain, preflight, and operate around down wash for decades. It will be different but not insurmountable for theCVN/CVW. will it change the ways guys do business and require them to think? Absolutely. Will all the players involved have to play a part in the solution? Absolutely. The carrier used to have routine hits from shitters back in the day to bring on stuff that the COD couldn't.

 

[Flash]

...what I'm hearing is "the C-3 could do this, this, and this" when it's nothing more right now than concept art, planes in the boneyard, and a list of promises. G-d knows what a contractor promises an airplane can do is usually what it winds up being able to do...Guys are talking about "just take the boneyard Hoovs and build a new fuselage" like that's the easiest thing in the world....That's going to take years and, again, all that gets folded into the unit cost....anyone think a C-3 would be ready in 3 years?

This! I had a buddy at the depot in JAX when the three S-3's flying for VX-30 went through, the first one took 18 months because; 1- No one had worked on one in forever and they had to relearn everything about the Hoov all over again, 2- They weren't in the best of shape. The next two went through faster but it wasn't a quick checkout then out the door, and this was just for getting them flyable/opeartional again with minimal 'mission' systems work. A C-3, it would be a goat-rope.

...I do think there might be merit in also refurbing some S-3s as US-3Bs. V-22s for heavy trash hauling and palletized cargo, US-3s for high-priority, longer-range stuff (like VRC-50 did with theirs back in the day) and as organic tanker. Unlike the "C-3", it doesn't require any major mods, and what mods it does require, were already worked out with the US-3A. So we kind of get the best of both worlds.

This too. I think if you stripped everything out of the back, put a basic refueling system in the fuselage/bomb bays (relatively minimal mod) and just left the front two seats you could have an okay tanker with a decent amount of give for the boat.

The US-3A, we had a VRC-50 guy in my first squadron and he said 'Miss Piggy' was used more like the squadron's party bus than a log bird when he was there in the 90's, basically a 'hotline call' waiting to happen. They could have 6 seats (basic non-ejection ones) in addition to the two in the front and all your essential supplies in the giant blivots, a party wherever they went.

 

[wink]

I imagine the mods would include some sort of extra gas, pressurized cabin for pax-hauling, and possibly the cabin modifications mentioned...

Back in the day the V-22 was debated as a S-3 replacement. Extra gas and a pressurized cabin were mentioned as must haves. No one thought it was worth it back then and it would have involved far more aircraft. Pressurizing an existing non-pressurized design isn't a simple mod nor particularly cheap.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Handlers, Air Bosses, and Air OpsOs will just have to learn to deal with it.

Agreed.

Wait, hasn't airwing size shrunk over time?

For FW yes, there are more RW onboard (most of the time) now, but it shouldn't be as tough of a nut to crack as many handlers make it out to be.

 

[Flash]

One small annoying thing as an aircraft nerd, the designation scheme for the three versions is all screwed up and contrary to DoD directive.

MV-22 - Marine transport
CV-22 - AFSOC multi-mission bird
HV-22 - Navy log bird (proposed)

It ought to be:

CV-22B for the Marines
MV-22B for AFSOC
U or CV-22C for the Navy

But no, politics got in the way because the Marines need a 'multi-mission' bird, the Air Force probably didn't care what the hell AFSOC got stuck with and the Navy apparently wants to get in rescue business with their plopters. I am going to hazard a guess the Navy version won't be MV-22 because Marines won't let the Navy call it that since they are the only ones awesome enough to fly the 'MV', much like everyday Navy folks can't wear the desert NWU's because they look too similar to the Marine desert cammies. And the Air Force still isn't giving a shit.

//Rant off

 

[ea6bflyr]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, you cant use that type of logic...if you did, we'd have EFA-18Gs instead of our EA-18G.

 

[nittany03]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, you cant use that type of logic...if you did, we'd have EFA-18Gs instead of our EA-18G.

Well that would at least explain the ratio of BFM to EA sorties on the RAG's schedule.

I keed, I keed . . .

 

[Flash]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you, you cant use that type of logic...if you did, we'd have EFA-18Gs instead of our EA-18G.

Can't use any logic apparently! The FA thing to begin with was political, what difference between is there between the Hornet and an F-16 mission-wise? Pretty much none, but I guess the Navy needed justification to get a replacement for the A-7 because why would you need more fighters if you already have the F-14? And we all know nothing could ever replace the F-14! If you want to know why, just ask a Tomcat guy...

It is also same reason we ended up with C-37's instead of C-20K's. And yes it should be the EFA-18G or the EF-18G if they had gotten it right in the first place, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Beans]

Or, they'd call the F/A-18 the A-18, or the A/F-18, putting what it seems to do more (attack/strike) out front or all by itself.

 

[nittany03]

words

Tangent - I realize that the G is a slightly different beast than the B, and that they're evolving the tactics to match the airframe. That said, I do think it's entertaining to watch the shift in perception from outside the community. As soon as the nose got pointy, people sat up and took notice like it was a complete world-changer, even though an ICAP III Prowler has almost exactly the same gear as the G.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Back in the day the V-22 was debated as a S-3 replacement. Extra gas and a pressurized cabin were mentioned as must haves. No one thought it was worth it back then and it would have involved far more aircraft. Pressurizing an existing non-pressurized design isn't a simple mod nor particularly cheap.

I don't think it would be easy or cheap...I was just saying I bet it'll be on the wish list. "The C-2 has this, so make the V-22 have it too". Hopefully this won't devolve into gold-plating an "off the shelf" design until it completely negates whatever advantages buying an existing design gave you (a la the VH-71).

 

[SynixMan]

Pressurizing the cabin to get "above" weather might be an interesting problem, given the fold mechanism. I don't know what kind of de-ice/anti-ice equipment the V-22 has, but not being able to climb through/above an icing layer might be a change of business for VRC folks. Is it too soon to call them HRC?

 

[Pags]

Pressurizing the cabin to get "above" weather might be an interesting problem, given the fold mechanism. I don't know what kind of de-ice/anti-ice equipment the V-22 has, but not being able to climb through/above an icing layer might be a change of business for VRC folks. Is it too soon to call them HRC?

I remember V-22 crews walking with O2 masks on the boat, so I think they use an OBOGS to get up high. I can't remember what the provisions are for troops/pax to use O2, if any.

 

[picklesuit]

So you can't do ACM/BFM with an F-117?!

 

[wlawr005]

Not without a gun and/or radar.