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NATO Declares Russia an Enemy - Your take.

I'm a bit fuzzy on my mid 20th century history. Wasn't NATO formed precisely because the U.S. and several western European democracies identified Russia as an adversary? Why is this news?
 
Spekkio said:
I'm a bit fuzzy on my mid 20th century history. Wasn't NATO formed precisely because the U.S. and several western European democracies identified Russia as an adversary? Why is this news?
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Because NATO went looking for a mission after the USSR imploded, reaching out to the Eastern European states for expanded membership. There was talk awhile back of giving Russia at least observer status in NATO as part of the post-historical let's-hold-hands-and-sing-Kumbaya that was the early post-Cold War. So Russia was officially no longer the bad guy. Carrot instead of stick, especially considering that they had a bunch of unsecured nukes and their then-President was allegedly found drunk in his underwear on Pennsylvania Avenue looking for pizza. Not much of a threat.

Keep in mind that Russia has a long memory. Where have their threats historically come from? Ah, yes. Napoleon and Hitler both invaded from the east and brought much hate and discontent upon the Rodina before the Russian winter did its thing. So here Russia is, humiliated by losing the Cold War, and its former enemy is now expanding by including Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, et al. And making noises about including Georgia and Ukraine. Russia historically used influence over its neighbors as a buffer against invasion. Democracy be damned. NATO is waking up to this fact and realizing that Article 5 might come up against Putin claiming discrimination against Russian-speakers in the Baltics, who he has asserted a right to protect using military force if necessary.

Looks like geopolitics ain't dead in Europe, after all.
 
I'm waiting to see how the market, and China react to this. There is also conflict between China and Japan over some islands.
 
I don't think this really surprises anyone. Even though Putin portrayed an exterior of cooperation and friendliness, deep down he is a product of the Soviet government hierarchy, a career official who would love to see Russia return to the glory days of the Soviet Union.

It's be pretty apparent since at least the mid-2000s that Putin was making some very tactical and cerebral moves behind the scenes in order to consolidate his power, such as allowing the oligarchs essentially free reign in their business practices in exchange for staying out of politics. With his control of the money, the state, and now the constitution, who could hope to oppose him?

You have to hand it to the man, he is without a doubt one of the best political tacticians of our time. He knows that Europe and the US are not willing to sacrifice the blood and money to protect Crimea/eastern Ukraine. Even if Soviet troops rolled into Kiev, would the West do anything besides slap some sanctions on? I seriously doubt it, with a majority of Americans now favoring an isolationist foreign policy.

Anyways, sorry for the TL;DR. Have a final tomorrow on some of this stuff, I figure if I'm not going to be studying I might as well be talking about something moderately related to what I should be studying. :p
 
xltn said:
I'm waiting to see how the market, and China react to this. There is also conflict between China and Japan over some islands.
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china bought up most of the MI-24's and 28's so they and russia love each other right now, not to mention most of the worlds supply of steel and concrete...it's the world against china and russia so just one big ass game of chess at the world's expense. not to mention china having their own semi-successful f-35. SOCOM 2020 initiative puts the US back in Philippines prepping for possible occurrences in Asia and will be interesting to see if russia dumps helo/jet parts and aircraft in african nations. The Pivot to Asia will be an interesting event to watch unfold/be a part of
 
Hopeful Hoya said:
...You have to hand it to the man, he is without a doubt one of the best political tacticians of our time. He knows that Europe and the US are not willing to sacrifice the blood and money to protect Crimea/eastern Ukraine. Even if Soviet troops rolled into Kiev, would the West do anything besides slap some sanctions on? I seriously doubt it, with a majority of Americans now favoring an isolationist foreign policy.
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In the short term he may be gaining some traction but I wouldn't give him too much credit yet, his vision of Russia is deeply flawed and unrealistic and many of his current policies will bite him the ass in the long term if they aren't already.

utswimmer37 said:
china bought up most of the MI-24's and 28's so they and russia love each other right now...not to mention china having their own semi-successful f-35. SOCOM 2020 initiative puts the US back in Philippines prepping for possible occurrences in Asia and will be interesting to see if russia dumps helo/jet parts and aircraft in african nations...
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I am not sure where you are getting your info but China and Russia don't love each other, they are partners of convenience that happen to get along okay right now. Also, China hasn't bought Mi-24 or 28's and a prototype that looks pretty in pictures and that fanboys think is just awesome ≠ a successful or semi-successful aircraft.
 
used to work for a company that brokered russian helicopter parts for the afghan special forces and china was constantly destroying the parts market because they'd buy up everything in a swoop and our procurement timetables would go way out the window. it's a better relationship than one would think. Russia does/likes whatever makes them money
 
utswimmer37 said:
used to work for a company that brokered russian helicopter parts for the afghan special forces and china was constantly destroying the parts market because they'd buy up everything in a swoop and our procurement timetables would go way out the window. it's a better relationship than one would think. Russia does/likes whatever makes them money
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And it probably is not as good as you think it is, you only had a small window into their relationship and apparently an inaccurate one.
 
Change in non-farm and unemployment rate came out today. Non-farm was 288k versus 218k estimate. Unemployment rate was %6.3 versus %6.6 estimate. But stocks are down and treasuries are up. That is not good news
 
Flash said:
In the short term he may be gaining some traction but I wouldn't give him too much credit yet, his vision of Russia is deeply flawed and unrealistic and many of his current policies will bite him the ass in the long term if they aren't already.
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I was talking more in general about his presidency rather than this specific instance. If you look at the ways that he consolidated his power in Russia and essentially made Europe dependent on Russian cheap gas exports it's pretty smart.

Long run yes he may be outmaneuvered, but it's going to take some serious capital on the US' and Europe's part because at this point Europe can't do much but slap some weak sanctions on because they are hamstrung by the fact that they rely on Russia for natural gas.
 
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