Navigator to NFO

[LostNav]

I'm a fully qualified C-130 Navigator looking to cross over to the NFO program. I've been talking with a recruiter and things are going good. I'm just wondering if anyone has heard of anyone else doing this? Did the job correlate well? Did that person have to go through the basic NFO school or did his or her Air Force Navigator training count (I went throught the 562nd at Randolph which was a joint AF/Navy school)?

 

[RadicalDude]

It may depend on which platform you'd like to fly, but I'd imagine they'd make you do the whole shebang, API through Wings.

 

[wink]

Seems to me you would go to the VP community since your Nav quals would give you a head start as a P-3/P-8 NFO. They all start as Navs and then qual as TACCOs. But hey, who knows. Can say it is highly likely you will enjoy being a NFO much more than being a USAF NAV. Good luck.

 

[wink]

It may depend on which platform you'd like to fly, but I'd imagine they'd make you do the whole shebang, API through Wings.

I am not so sure this would be true but am not familiar with the more recent joint endeavors in NFO training. Is the 562nd just navigator navigation training like they used to do out at Mather AFB for P-3 NFOs? I just can't imagine the benefit of going through API and primary NFO. If the 562nd doesn't train in low levels air intercept, etc, and they want him to down select like every other stud, then sure, he would have to get that stuff. But he could go P-3s and get a head start on catching up with his peers career-wise and skip the stuff in P-cola.

 

[LostNav]

Like most aspiring NFO's, I'd like to get something in the jet community (EA-6 or F-18) but I will take whatever I can get. I'm currently an Air Guard guy looking for something fulltime. I love flying but I don't feel that I do it enough with the Air Guard. Plus my civilian job is getting boring and becoming a headache. I'm ready to trade in my cubicle for a cockpit.

 

[LostNav]

The Navigator program was at Mather then moved to Randolph. I know it was a Navy/AF squadron for many years. The anchor still sits in front of the building. I have no problem going back through NFO training. I've spent most of my adult life in training.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Plan on going through the entire NFO pipeline. There is no way to get credit for your NAV training in the NFO pipeline. Pilot to NFO transitions go straight to advance but that's because they already possess the basic flying skills.

Related story: When I was at the advanced NFO training squadron, we had an Air Force NAV attempt just the advanced portion of NFO training and he had a hard time because he lacked the basic airmanship skills (Specifically aviate & communicate areas). He ended up not finishing the program and going back to the AF cockpit as a NAV.

-ea6bflyr

 

[robav8r]

Why would he have to go through 562nd again if he has already been through? Assuming, of course, he selects P-3/P-8 (which his AF background has already prepared him well for). When I went through 562nd, the AF guys did the exact same events up until winging and then they got some additional Nav training, not sure if it was LL's or something AF specific.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Why would he have to go through 562nd again if he has already been through? Assuming, of course, he selects P-3/P-8 (which his AF background has already prepared him well for). When I went through 562nd, the AF guys did the exact same events up until winging and then they got some additional Nav training, not sure if it was LL's or something AF specific.

The Navy and AF have parted ways in NAV & NFO training. Navy guys no longer go through AF Nav training. You did go through VT-4 or 10 prior to the 562nd, right? Our young aspiring NFO has not and this is why I made the statement above. Where do young P-3/P-8 Nav's get their training now? FRS?

-ea6bflyr

 

[Flash]

It really depends on what you would transition to fly, I imagine if you went to P-3/8s or E-6s you would go straight to the RAG and learn the platform-specific stuff there. You will have more navigator-specific training and experience coming from your background than your contemporaries in the Navy but that won't be your job for long as your are expected to run the learn how to run the mission pretty fast. If you went jets you would probably do the transition track at Navy SNFO training to do jets, which when I did it wasn't a specific track and depended on the student and whoever got stuck planning the training track at the time. Never heard of anyone coming from the USAF as a Nav to the Navy as an NFO but I would assume it has happened, best of luck!

The USAF-specific training was for A/M/H/L/E/W/C-130 types who flew about half a dozen flights in a T-1 to get a taste of LLs, the guys I knew who went through it said it was largely useless but fun since they sat in the jump seat of the T-1 and didn't do much more than look outside. The guys not going C-130s didn't have to do it.

 

[Flash]

The Navy and AF have parted ways in NAV & NFO training. Navy guys no longer go through AF Nav training. You did go through VT-4 or 10 prior to the 562nd, right? Our young aspiring NFO has not and this is why I made the statement above. Where do young P-3/P-8 Nav's get their training now? FRS?

Even if he didn't go through primary he still has plenty of training and experience as a 'panel' NAV to have a relatively smooth transition straight to to the RAG for P-3/8s or E-6s. He would likely be far ahead of his peers starting out as a NAV in VP or VQ since he would have had a lot more navigator training and experience, especially since it is a profession instead of a stepping stone in the USAF.

Transitioning to jets is a different story and then I think it is largely based on the individual rather than previous training. My primary training in VT-4 did almost nothing for me (12 flights for a little over 20 hours?) when I started training for jets four years later, by that time whatever 'air sense' I had developed in the T-34 was lost in the dark and windowless tube of the EP-3.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

If you are talking to a recruiter you are talking to the wrong person unless you are looking at going reserves, if you are looking at active you need to contact the community manager about an interservice transfer, I am sure some of the people here have that persons number/name.

 

[LostNav]

I've talked to an Officer recruiter who has put me in touch with the IST people in Tennessee. I think I'm good there. As for my training, all the USAF does in the C-130 is low-level airdrop missions. While we do haul trash around the AOR, we train to do low-level, timing control, threat avoidance, air drop, NVG ops, and radar interpretation. I am also a unique situation because I am a pilot training washout that has 30 hours in a T-6 (I washed out over family reasons and the AF only gives a person one chance). I even soloed the T-6 so my air sense was above my peers in the 562nd. Also, in the C-130, we back up our pilots with maneuvers in the pattern, formations, etc. giving us more air sense than some of our "dark and windowless tube" counterparts. Does the Navy allow NFO's to switch platforms? The AF (Active Duty, Guard and Reserve) has pilots fly a broad range of aircraft however on the CSO (Navigator) side, we are deemed a life in the aircraft we were assigned.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I've talked to an Officer recruiter who has put me in touch with the IST people in Tennessee. I think I'm good there. As for my training, all the USAF does in the C-130 is low-level airdrop missions. While we do haul trash around the AOR, we train to do low-level, timing control, threat avoidance, air drop, NVG ops, and radar interpretation. I am also a unique situation because I am a pilot training washout that has 30 hours in a T-6 (I washed out over family reasons and the AF only gives a person one chance). I even soloed the T-6 so my air sense was above my peers in the 562nd. Also, in the C-130, we back up our pilots with maneuvers in the pattern, formations, etc. giving us more air sense than some of our "dark and windowless tube" counterparts.

You sound like you'd need a tailored SNFO syllabus if you went jets. Like Rob was saying above, you might be a good plug & play fit to P-3/P-8 community.

Does the Navy allow NFO's to switch platforms? The AF (Active Duty, Guard and Reserve) has pilots fly a broad range of aircraft however on the CSO (Navigator) side, we are deemed a life in the aircraft we were assigned.

Not usually. Most folks that transition do so because of other reasons. Typically changing platforms during your career, aside from sundowning platforms, is not considered career enhancing.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Flash]

....Does the Navy allow NFO's to switch platforms? The AF (Active Duty, Guard and Reserve) has pilots fly a broad range of aircraft however on the CSO (Navigator) side, we are deemed a life in the aircraft we were assigned.

As ea6bflyr says you stay with your aircraft unless it retires and you transition to a new one or if you put in for a transition board and those are rare and vary depending on the year (needs of the Navy).

Have you thought about transitioning active USAF? That might be a lot easier than transitioning There are plenty of interesting C-130 versions that would give you a bigger challenge like AC/MC-130s.