Civilian Maritime Tailhook Aviation

[squorch2]

I can't speak for a 53, but an H-60 can not vertrep a F-18 motor.

Interesting. I wonder what was in all those engine cans we schlepped. 60 motor is much smaller - these were about 3000#, give or take.

ETA: Yeah, the F-404's dry weight is about 2200 lbs. F-414 is 2400... why can't a 60 vertrep an F-18 motor?

 

[helolumpy]

Interesting. I wonder what was in all those engine cans we schlepped. 60 motor is much smaller - these were about 3000#, give or take.

ETA: Yeah, the F-404's dry weight is about 2200 lbs. F-414 is 2400... why can't a 60 vertrep an F-18 motor?

Does that weight include the 'can'?

I can't speak to the 60S, but in the F/H if you want to pick up 2400 lbs then you have about 2K (or less) in gas. (21,884 - 17.5 (dry weight) - 2.4 (engine weight) = 1984 lbs of fuel)
Can you pick up an engine, yes. Can you transport it into Bahrain when you're out in the CVOA's? Probably not.

Since this came up as a capability of the US-3 vs C-2, my response was about transporting for distance, not during during an UNREP with two ships alongside each other.

 

[Jim123]

Interesting. I wonder what was in all those engine cans we schlepped. 60 motor is much smaller - these were about 3000#, give or take.

ETA: Yeah, the F-404's dry weight is about 2200 lbs. F-414 is 2400... why can't a 60 vertrep an F-18 motor?

3,000lbs seems awfully high for just a bare T700- does that include the shipping crate? The wikipedia weight for the T700 is about 400lbs and the wiki numbers for the F404 and 414 are about the same as your edit/added numbers.

I'm sure a stripped-down H-60 could haul a crated F-18 motor... at sea level and on a wintry day in the Arctic with a DA of -5,000 ft... brief to include a detailed risk assessment... Might make a good HAC board scenario!

(Only my first paragraph is a serious question.)

 

[jmcquate]

Maybe I'm way off base, but it seems to me that a V-22 would make good, all be it an expensive, but a good COD.

 

[MasterBates]

High DA will kill its performance more than comparable fixed wing. Plopters are good, But I think its not a cod replacement

Sent via my HTC EVO 4G

 

[jmcquate]

What platform does the COD mission for LHDs?

 

[Jim123]

What platform does the COD mission for LHDs?

That's a trick question (COD = carrier). OK, I understand what you really meant. The short answer is any helicopter or a V-22, but the C-2 is generally better for carrying how much/how far/how fast.

 

[phrogdriver]

If you mean aerial resupply, or Vertical Onboard Delivery (VOD), it's usually the Marine assault support assets--the 46s, 53s, and 22s. The Navy SAR birds will do their piece as well. Used to frequently be shorebased Navy 53s, now, not so much.

 

[squorch2]

Does that weight include the 'can'?

I can't speak to the 60S, but in the F/H if you want to pick up 2400 lbs then you have about 2K (or less) in gas. (21,884 - 17.5 (dry weight) - 2.4 (engine weight) = 1984 lbs of fuel)
Can you pick up an engine, yes. Can you transport it into Bahrain when you're out in the CVOA's? Probably not.

Since this came up as a capability of the US-3 vs C-2, my response was about transporting for distance, not during during an UNREP with two ships alongside each other.

Right on - my mistake there.

And Jim, the 3000# figure was for the big cans that (I assume) were holding 404s/414s/J52s.

 

[Jim123]

Right on - my mistake there.

And Jim, the 3000# figure was for the big cans that (I assume) were holding 404s/414s/J52s.

That makes sense. I think I misunderstood your other post (I thought you meant T700+can was 3,000lbs(!).)

 

[helolumpy]

Maybe I'm way off base, but it seems to me that a V-22 would make good, all be it an expensive, but a good COD.

Boeing actually briefed this to the Navy.
An Osprey can carry about 80% of what a COD can (internal).
It can carry about half of what a 53 can externally, about 80% of the pax of a 53 (but at a speed comparable to the COD)

So it makes a good 'tweener' platform if you needed to replace both airframes. So if the Navy actually does follow through and buy the Osprey, then it COULD be used to fill the Heavy Lift/VOD mission that the Navy 53's filled for years.

It "can" do overwater SAR, but the cost per hour is drastically higher than an H-60 so no one is considering it for plane guard duty.

 

[HooverPilot]

Boeing actually briefed this to the Navy.
An Osprey can carry about 80% of what a COD can (internal).
It can carry about half of what a 53 can externally, about 80% of the pax of a 53 (but at a speed comparable to the COD)

So it makes a good 'tweener' platform if you needed to replace both airframes. So if the Navy actually does follow through and buy the Osprey, then it COULD be used to fill the Heavy Lift/VOD mission that the Navy 53's filled for years.

It "can" do overwater SAR, but the cost per hour is drastically higher than an H-60 so no one is considering it for plane guard duty.

Helolumpy is right, the V-22 is an 80% answer for a COD replacement. It was considered and rejected in the previous AoA, but will be considered again. The parameters are a bit different this time, so we will see how it goes. The V-22 CAN do much of what the COD does today. It's that 20% that it doesn't do (or doesn't do well) that needs to be answered for. In addition, Big Navy procures platforms to meet a desired capability and they have some new capabilities that they wants out of the future platform. I.E. It's not just what the COD is capable of doing today, but what capabilities they want the next platform to do in the future.

I wrote out some of the future capabilities that Big Navy is considering for the next aircraft, but I deleted it - not the right forum.

FYI, the projected Viking CPH is less than $5,000. CODs are well below that. The Osprey CPH is higher and a future new aircraft will need to be competitive within this range.