MIdshipman Fails Drug Test

[MAKE VAPES]

"The Navy officer corps needs to emulate the society it protects... or something like that" - dude with stars on collar at Pentagon Action Officer course... guess the population of societal turds is well represented in this case. The kid won't live this down now that his name is out... ref lead ensign at API...

 

[UCbearcat]

FB players eat at team tables during plebe year

Quoted from a comment on the Hometown Annapolis story.

I guess I can see this happening (can any Academy guys weigh in?), but it seems a little ridiculous in my opinion. Do these guys get special treatment while in the chow hall because they're football players?

He's got 435 demerits now that the Admiral has given him 100 more...

 

[bacardi00185]

All varsity athletics have "team" tables at the Academy. Plebes of any varsity team are allowed to eat at the team tables but also eat some meals with their respective company throughout the year. Some may say that team tables are special treatment, however since some teams practice until late or have workout schedules during lunch team tables afford them the chance to eat at times slightly outside of normal meal hours at the Academy,

 

[UCbearcat]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info Bacardi. That makes sense.

 

[JonDW7]

Maybe the superintendent got a phone call "suggesting" that course of action. I know it has happened in the training command

That's no joke. One guy in an API class near mine was a boat school grad, former football player, and failed three tests in API before I left the command. Rumor has it that he failed a fourth one too. Needless to say, he was kept in the program, and I actually ran into him a few months later in primary. People in my class were getting booted for failing two tests...and not being redesignated.

 

[nittany03]

We have the same problems you speak of at schools everywhere (as I'm sure you're aware). Athletes are given leeway and advantages that no other undergraduate could dream of having and they still damn near fail out or can't hang in some form or fashion. This is just a good example of it from a much more 'honorable' institution. I agree with the above posts...BOOT HIM.

Paterno would have booted his ass. I'm still curious if Navy would face possible sanctions for playing him next year . . .

 

[DanMa1156]

I completely agree that the Navy Enquirer isn't exactly a cornerstone of the journalist's craft.

But still...dude pops positive, and he's kept? I've known deck seamen to get bounced for less. I'm not sure what other side to that story there could possibly be.

The thing I don't buy is the multiple honor offenses. Maybe multiple accusations, but it's rare someone gets kept even after one. Multiple HO's...nah, nobody gets kept for that, even football players.

I wish I could say that's the case. However, he has been found guilty on several honor offenses. One of my very own classmates in my own company who is also a minority football player has been found guilty of 4 honor offenses, 3 of which happened in his 2nd semester of 2/C Year. Sadly, it's no surprise.

 

[CommodoreMid]

Threadjack, but why doesn't USNA just switch from the zero tolerance honor system since, from what I've heard here and from USNA grads, that they don't really practice it? I was on the Honor Council in college and I really liked the way we did it there. Of course, there were a lot of nuances to the penalties which I won't go into now, but basically the gist was is you were found guilty of an offense, you failed the class. You were found guilty of a second offense any time later, you were expelled. I saw many many people who made really stupid decisions honor-wise, but clearly learned something from the experience and are probably better people for it. I think statistically the council only got one or two reoffenders up per year that got expelled, with maybe 100 students found guilty of a first offense. Zero tolerance for anything is kind of a useless policy IMO since they always seem to be exceptions, so with the honor code, why not switch to a system that allows for remediation and learning from stupidity, then hammering a second retarded decision?

That said, this guy needs to go, hands down.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Threadjack, but why doesn't USNA just switch from the zero tolerance honor system since, from what I've heard here and from USNA grads, that they don't really practice it? I was on the Honor Council in college and I really liked the way we did it there. Of course, there were a lot of nuances to the penalties which I won't go into now, but basically the gist was is you were found guilty of an offense, you failed the class. You were found guilty of a second offense any time later, you were expelled. I saw many many people who made really stupid decisions honor-wise, but clearly learned something from the experience and are probably better people for it. I think statistically the council only got one or two reoffenders up per year that got expelled, with maybe 100 students found guilty of a first offense. Zero tolerance for anything is kind of a useless policy IMO since they always seem to be exceptions, so with the honor code, why not switch to a system that allows for remediation and learning from stupidity, then hammering a second retarded decision?

That said, this guy needs to go, hands down.

You pretty much described the system at the Naval Academy. We don't have an honor code, but an honor concept. It's completely Midshipmen run, and it can run the gamut of informal counseling to full blown kick-their-ass-out. Remediation can be meted out, etc... The idea is that Midshipmen are supposed to take ownership. Perfect example - my youngster year, a good friend of mine's stereo crapped the bed. He decided he was going to go to Best Buy, buy a new one, put his old one in the box, and return it because it didn't work. I informally counseled him - and he agreed it was a bad idea. He never had any further problems. I had another classmate go through honor remediation and he's now a 60 pilot.

I don't know anyone that survived more than one honor violation. They shouldn't.

I love my school, and what it stands for - but it's being cheapened. Not by one or two bad apples, but by NAAA. I'd rather go back to watching Navy Football suck and being frustrated than hear about crap like this.

 

[Flash]

You pretty much described the system at the Naval Academy. We don't have an honor code, but an honor concept. It's completely Midshipmen run, and it can run the gamut of informal counseling to full blown kick-their-ass-out. Remediation can be meted out, etc... The idea is that Midshipmen are supposed to take ownership......

I never got the Naval Academy's honor system when it came to that. I liked ours, you violated the honor code and you were kicked out, simple as that. There was the rare leniency but I only remember two instances of that in my four years, one of which caused controversy. The honor code was also student run with only appeals going before the President of the college, only once overturned (the controversy). No controversy about 'bilging your shipmates' either, if they violated the honor code should they really have the privilege of being your fellow cadet/middie?

I love my school, and what it stands for - but it's being cheapened. Not by one or two bad apples, but by NAAA. I'd rather go back to watching Navy Football suck and being frustrated than hear about crap like this.

Do they really have that much power?

 

[HH-60H]

I don't know anyone that survived more than one honor violation.

Unfortunately, I know one of our classmates who falls into that category.

They shouldn't. I love my school, and what it stands for - but it's being cheapened. Not by one or two bad apples, but by NAAA. I'd rather go back to watching Navy Football suck and being frustrated than hear about crap like this.

+1, but it's not just today, this has parallels with the EE scandal.

 

[Sly1978]

I would say there's a fair chance. A classmate of mine (football player) was essentially being let out of his contract in order to pursue the NFL. Another classmate had been drafted by the Jets, and was being let out of his contract. Then one of them banged a plebe... No problems - until it hit the media. Both of them were commissioned and had to serve the full 5 years.

On the surface that's a pretty funny story. However, it stops being funny when you realize that those guys' "punishment" for lacking personal integrity and self-control, was being commissioned. Does that seem a little ass-backwards to anyone else? I would say that banging one of your subordinates is a pretty clear indication that you lack Honor, Courage, and Commitment. Good thing we forced them to become Officers in the Navy. I'm sure that they were inspirations to everyone that was privileged enough to serve under them.

As far as the current issue goes, I'm not a big fan of "Zero tolerance" policies, because I think that every situation needs to be treated individually, but after reading these stories is there anyone out there who thinks that this kid will ever become a good officer at this point? Forgive my humble state-school education but I always assumed that in the end that was the purpose of the Naval Academy - creating Warfighters and Leaders. What's the justification for keeping someone like this around? I would assume that since he's at the Academy he's obviously not NFL draft material, so a couple of years from now we're going to be giving him a set of gold bars and telling him to go lead people and be responsible for them and their safety? Am I missing something? The only outcome when you graduate from Annapolis is a commission, right? I mean, there's not some other path for guys that we put up with just because they can play football?

Thank you, phrogpilot, for showing me the error of my ways. I have edited this post to make clear my intentions that the second-half of it was in regards to the current situation and also remove the term "Annapolis High" out of it. I assure you, I only meant to offend. (Yeah, I typed that right)

 

[phrogpilot73]

However, it stops being funny when you realize that those guys' "punishment" for lacking personal integrity and self-control, was being commissioned.

Actually, it's GUY, not GUYS. One of them was a stand up dude that I think got a handful of demerits for oversleeping a class. The other guy wasn't a poster child for the Navy, but had one indiscretion. Guess what? College students make mistakes. If he didn't demonstrate a PATTERN (unlike the current subject), then what's the problem with him being commissioned? He met all the requirements to.

Does that seem a little ass-backwards to anyone else? I would say that banging one of your subordinates is a pretty clear indication that you lack Honor, Courage, and Commitment.

Did you ever hook up with an underclassman in college?

Good thing we forced them to become Officers in the Navy. I'm sure that they were inspirations to everyone that was privileged enough to serve under them. Which I guess is where this whole thing rubs me the wrong way. I'm not a big fan of "Zero tolerance" policies, because I think that every situation needs to be treated individually, but after reading these stories is there anyone out there who thinks that this kid will ever become a good officer at this point?

You just applied a "zero tolerance" policy to USNA. Everyone has to be perfect. They can't make mistakes. Or so you suggest... I added my anecdote about a classmate, and how media attention changed the leadership's decision.

There's a lot of people who spent time mustering in smoke hall that turned out to be fine Naval Officers, they just made a college-level mistake. Good job looking down from your perch. Must be lonely up there.

For what it's worth - my Dad got a Black N. He retired as a Captain. You're off base.

Forgive my humble state-school education but I always assumed that in the end that was the purpose of the Naval Academy - creating Warfighters and Leaders.

Clearly, with this statement your beef is with USNA. Actually, the purpose of the Naval Academy is to develop midshipmen morally, mentally and physically and to imbue them with the highest ideals of duty, honor and loyalty in order to provide graduates who are dedicated to a career of naval service and have potential for future development in mind and character to assume the highest responsibilities of command, citizenship and government.

What's the justification for keeping someone like this around? I would assume that since he's at the Academy he's obviously not NFL draft material, so a couple of years from now we're going to be giving him a set of gold bars and telling him to go lead people and be responsible for them and their safety? Am I missing something?

Who? The guy in the OP, or my classmate?

The only outcome when you graduate from Annapolis High is a commission, right?

Actually, Annapolis High is on Riva Road. I got a High School diploma there, I got a Bachelor's degree and a commission from USNA. And last I checked, it's got greater than 150 years of developing midshipmen. Yes, some fall through the cracks. Some should be booted out and aren't. Guess what, the WORST officer I've EVER encountered in 17 years wearing a uniform went to a state school, so you can throttle it back a notch.

 

[RadicalDude]

Words

+1

Additionally, few officer accession programs are under the media scrutiny that Annapolis bears. All the stand-up, model midshipmen who graduate rarely make the front page, mostly because they're doing what they're supposed to do.

 

[Sly1978]

Actually, it's GUY, not GUYS. One of them was a stand up dude that I think got a handful of demerits for oversleeping a class. The other guy wasn't a poster child for the Navy, but had one indiscretion. Guess what? College students make mistakes. If he didn't demonstrate a PATTERN (unlike the current subject), then what's the problem with him being commissioned? He met all the requirements to.

I guess I misunderstood the story. It sounded like they were both stripped of their chance to play in the NFL (and forced instead to become Officers) because of this incident. I'm still not sure what kind of sense that makes, but I'll go with it.

Did you ever hook up with an underclassman in college?

I'll answer that with another question. "Was I ever specifically ordered not to hook up with an underclassman?" - No. Let's compare apples to apples. It doesn't matter who I hooked up with. I hadn't taken the grand oath. As the saying goes, where much is given...

You just applied a "zero tolerance" policy to USNA. Everyone has to be perfect. They can't make mistakes. Or so you suggest... I added my anecdote about a classmate, and how media attention changed the leadership's decision.

There's a lot of people who spent time mustering in smoke hall that turned out to be fine Naval Officers, they just made a college-level mistake. Good job looking down from your perch. Must be lonely up there.

What I was referring to with your anecdote is the irony that the Navy was willing to let these guys go and be civilians until their "indiscretions" came to light. Then they deemed them unworthy of civilian status and forced them to take commissions. That still makes no sense to me.

For what it's worth - my Dad got a Black N. He retired as a Captain. You're off base.

I have no idea what a Black N is. Again, my gripe with your story was not that those guys were forgiven for their transgressions and commissioned. It was that your story is almost the polar opposite of what is currently happening. The current situation, as I understand it, is about not kicking someone out with multiple offenses and allowing him to remain a mid. I understood that your story was about not allowing the guys (I'm not sure why both of them are mentioned if only one screwed up) to voluntarily turn down a commission - because they screwed up.

Clearly, with this statement your beef is with USNA. Actually, the purpose of the Naval Academy is to develop midshipmen morally, mentally and physically and to imbue them with the highest ideals of duty, honor and loyalty in order to provide graduates who are dedicated to a career of naval service and have potential for future development in mind and character to assume the highest responsibilities of command, citizenship and government.

I agree whole-heartedly with you. That is a long way of saying what I just said - Warfighters and Leaders. My "beef" is that I don't feel, reading the current stories, that the current guy has shown any of those qualities or any potential to develop them. So what is the justification for keeping him around with the afore-mentioned mission of the Academy?

Who? The guy in the OP, or my classmate?

Hopefully that is clear now.

Actually, Annapolis High is on Riva Road. I got a High School diploma there, I got a Bachelor's degree and a commission from USNA. And last I checked, it's got greater than 150 years of developing midshipmen. Yes, some fall through the cracks. Some should be booted out and aren't. Guess what, the WORST officer I've EVER encountered in 17 years wearing a uniform went to a state school, so you can throttle it back a notch.

Again I apologize. In my zeal to offend Academy grads and rile one up, I have offended Academy grads and riled one up. My intentions were nothing less than treacherous, I assure you. I never said that the Academy does not produce fine officers. What I'm asking is this: At a normal college, they can let their athletes get away with pretty much anything because the worst that can happen, really, is that they give some undeserving guy a BA in Physical Education or some such nonsense. For the Academy, who's specific mission is to produce Warfighters and Leaders - or all those other words you used to say the same thing - what is the justification of keeping a guy like the current one around? I mean, it seems to me that giving him a commission in 2 1/2 years - which if I'm not mistaken is the only alternative to kicking him out - is much worse than just giving him a degree.

Hopefully that clarifies my position somewhat.