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MIdshipman Fails Drug Test

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It angers me but it is true..... If I'm able to get my wings I will constantly be looked at as "oohh I know how he got here he's black....."
I'm going to raise the bullshit flag. You can't walk around with a chip on your shoulder or with an inferiority complex. You haven't even been there yet so how could you know? I'll tell you what will happen...when you man up an aircraft, you are just another aviator and part of the team. Other members of the team will rely on you. Part of the Ready Room "rock tumbler" is to try you on for size outside the aircraft, but it's all business inside. Your life and that of others depends on it. This is not an elevator speech. You WILL be judged or rather held in esteem for your airborne proficiency, period. IF you're good, it doesn't matter what your ethnicity might be. Believe me, starting in Flight School, your rep will start building and although you'll compete with peers at every step, you'll garner a reputation for having "good hands" or being calm under pressure, etc. Since others will be counting on you when the chips are down, they'll always be reassessing your performance. Skippers have to know who they can count on for the tough missions or crappy ass weather, etc. Nobody is going to care how you got your wings, they'll know you earned them and you'll keep earning them. If you suck, someone wonder how you got to where you are at that point. So stop wasting your time worrying about and concentrate on not sucking (as a friend of mine likes to say). Now, go buy this book and take two things away from it;



1. If he can make it with head held high in the pervading bigotry and segregated days of late 40s and early 50s, so can you.

2. Jesse was a section leader when he was shot down. Do you think his wingman or other members of his thought affirmative action got him there. He made it on sheer determination and talent and earned his section leader qualification based on his airmanship. When he was shot down, his wingman risked his life to try and save him. Jesse died freezing to death, trapped in a cockpit of a mangled Corsair behind enemy lines with his bestfriend and wingman trying to extricate him. He didn't expect anything for this selfless act and thought he'd be courtmartialed for depositing a perfectly good Corsair behind enemy lines. He was awarded the Medal of Honor instead, but he'd trade it in a heartbeat to have Jesse back. So you think he ever thought Jesse got there by the color of his skin?

BTW - By happenstance, I served in Jesse's squadron 40 years after he was shot down. His squadronmates from the Korean War return to NAS Oceana just about every year and visit the current day Swordsmen if they are in town. I got to meet them several times and hear them tell their stories. So, I didn't learn about how Jesse was regarded from any book, I heard from the lips of those who served with him. To a man they all respected Jesse's skill as an aviator and nobody wondered how he got there. As they said, he wasn't merely good, he was a natural and translated his skill as an athlete into the cockpit making section lead while still an Ensign with a Naval Academy Grad LTJG flying as his wingman...looking up to him to learn, not wondering how he got there.
 

pharaelga

Constantly lost in the sauce....
Thank you for the insight heyjoe, I did not experience any discrimination while I was enlisted, it just seems that the race issue raises it's ugly head here quite often because of these stupid retention contraversies. If you were here you would understand a little of what I was talking about, I wish it was all "perceived". I personally want him gone because it makes both minorities and the Academy look bad as I stated before.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Also to make it clear, I attribute any short coming I have to my own lack of preparation or effort, I will not enslave myself with the mentality that it's the "white man's fault" for my misfortune, I was just stating that I dont want the flipside of that, which is "I bet he's achieved so much because he's black and gets preferential treatment."
I get what you mean, I "got it" long ago, and a lot of people "got it" long ago. Don't waste effort worrying about who doesn't "get it."

..... you know how many people here stop me and joke "hey its your month" its stupid lol....
Who knows. Maybe some people are testing you. Maybe they're making fun of it and figure that you probably agree. Maybe some just plain don't like it. Maybe some of them are just being buffoons. Maybe some of them are being jerks. Some of them probably actually respect you as a fellow mid, no more, no less...

Rest assured, when you show up to a fleet squadron, to quote GySgt Ermey..."you are all equally worthless." No one cares if you are black, white, or martian.
Seconded. The kind of people whose opinion you should care about will look at you funny because you're new, not because you're black or white... martian or purple, gonna have to think about those... :)
 

navymic

Member
pilot
Let's take a small step back and look more than a couple inches in front of our faces.

Nate Frazier was dismissed this past summer.

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/blogs/post/2842740/Frazier-Dismissed.html

He was a minority. He was a varsity athlete (football as well), and he was an absolute monster on the field. Really good. Very valuable to the team. More so than this guy. Yet, he was booted for cause.

I don't pretend to know all the details from either case. I just know that this is a recent example of the Academy deciding the other way.

So it is not a blanket UNSA policy to let all varsity athletes slide. It is not a blanket USNA policy to let all minorities slide.

So let's not go high and right over this. Let's just go high or go right (your preference). The story against this MIDN is pretty bad, but we don't know everything.
 

PropAddict

Now with even more awesome!
pilot
Contributor
What also angers me to no end is the fact I'm the only black guy in my aero class and every time the instructor hints at aviation not being for everybody he looks squarely in my direction.
If I had to guess who this prof is, I'd say he's a balding man with a last name that begins with "M". . .
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
I experienced discrimination once as an officer -- I think calling it reverse discrimination would be a fair appraisal ... :)

I had a kid from one of the squadrons assigned to me for a checkride -- he had pretty decent grades
(average +) up until THAT day ... i.e., the day he flew with me. He was O.K. in the brief but a little 'nervous' ... no biggie. He took 30 minutes to preflight the A-4, and that's bullshit and it definitely got my attention. After what seemed an eternity -- we took off and every fucking maneuver he was required to do was pathetic and so were the do-overs ... he was not even close ... so I finally took the aircraft and took us home. I gave him a BIG FUCKING DOWN -- 4 UNSAT grades on ONE HOP -- which was unheard of I was informed ... :) Maybe ... but it was deserved.

To give you a 'flavor' of the flight -- I think one of my write-in comments under the UNSAT given for 'Basic Air Work' was: BAW - NONE NOTED

I had a face-to-face w/ the Commodore -- he wanted to know: "what's up'??? This STUD has a pretty good record to date". I told the Commodore that I didn't know how that was possible. If he had good grades up to this point, then someone was not doing their job. I told him the student was a nice kid -- but he didn't 'have it' and had no place in a Navy cockpit.

I went on scheduled leave for two weeks the next day and was not present for the SPEEDY-BOARD which recommended two extra times & a re-check ... he got exactly that -- with a couple of Santa Claus instructors/"face men" ... result: same- o same-o, a.k.a. 'situation normal'. There were even a few 'whispers' goin' around that perhaps I had been 'too tough' on him just because he was a minority ... you know; 'cause he DID have pretty good grades up to that point, right ???

Give me a fuckin' break. Sooooooo, what happened then ... ??

On his first A-4 solo --- he ran off the side of the runway on takeoff roll, turned the jet over on its back -- crash crew showed up -- flight over -- solo over. He got out w/ minor injuries (fortunately he didn't try to punch) and the jet was strike damage.

He did NOT get another board -- flyin' days over -- he got the door.

The Commodore called me in when I came off leave and apologized for not listening to me (in his defense, it WAS 1 against @ 15 in favor of the kid). :icon_wink Why did he get so far and get such satisfactory + grades when anyone w/ a scintilla of honesty could read the tea leaves ... ??? You tell me ...

Are we done w/ the 'race' stuff here ... ??? The points have been made and what else is there, save beating it over & over & over again?? While there's always the exception and there's always ignorant people out there -- I'd like to think the Navy is beyond race these days -- for the record: I survived some of the more publicized 'Navy race riots' of decades ago. While the Navy may not be perfect (what is??), in my experience it's light years ahead of the rest of today's society ... :) You are what you are in the Navy -- you're a sailor, airman, or Marine ... you either perform & do your job -- or you need to be elsewhere.
 

DanMa1156

Land of the rising sun. Literally. There's no DST!
pilot
Contributor
Let's take a small step back and look more than a couple inches in front of our faces.

Nate Frazier was dismissed this past summer.

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/blogs/post/2842740/Frazier-Dismissed.html

He was a minority. He was a varsity athlete (football as well), and he was an absolute monster on the field. Really good. Very valuable to the team. More so than this guy. Yet, he was booted for cause.

I don't pretend to know all the details from either case. I just know that this is a recent example of the Academy deciding the other way.

So it is not a blanket UNSA policy to let all varsity athletes slide. It is not a blanket USNA policy to let all minorities slide.

So let's not go high and right over this. Let's just go high or go right (your preference). The story against this MIDN is pretty bad, but we don't know everything.
At the same time, most people agree that Nate Frazier should have been kicked out welllll before he was. Multiple honor offenses, several major conduct offenses, company officers pleading with the admin he be kicked out, etc. If I recall, his final conduct offense that got him kicked out was that he was pissing in bottles and leaving them right outside his hatch so others would get them. Point is: he got WAY more chances than most mids would have ever gotten, so you could hardly call it equity that he was kicked out when he was.
 

pharaelga

Constantly lost in the sauce....
I experienced discrimination once as an officer -- I think calling it reverse discrimination would be a fair appraisal ... :)

I had a kid from one of the squadrons assigned to me for a checkride -- he had pretty decent grades (average +) up until THAT day ... i.e., the day he flew with me. He was O.K. in the brief but a little 'nervous' ... no biggie. He took 30 minutes to preflight the A-4, and that's bullshit and it definitely got my attention. After what seemed an eternity -- we took off and every fucking maneuver he was required to do was pathetic and so were the do-overs ... he was not even close ... so I finally took the aircraft and took us home. I gave him a BIG FUCKING DOWN -- 4 UNSAT grades on ONE HOP -- which was unheard of I was informed ... :) Maybe ... but it was deserved.

To give you a 'flavor' of the flight -- I think one of my write-in comments under the UNSAT given for 'Basic Air Work' was: BAW - NONE NOTED

I had a face-to-face w/ the Commodore -- he wanted to know: "what's up'??? This STUD has a pretty good record to date". I told the Commodore that I didn't know how that was possible. If he had good grades up to this point, then someone was not doing their job. I told him the student was a nice kid -- but he didn't 'have it' and had no place in a Navy cockpit.

I went on scheduled leave for two weeks the next day and was not present for the SPEEDY-BOARD which recommended two extra times & a re-check ... he got exactly that -- with a couple of Santa Claus instructors/"face men" ... result: same- o same-o, a.k.a. 'situation normal'. There were even a few 'whispers' goin' around that perhaps I had been 'too tough' on him just because he was a minority ... you know; 'cause he DID have pretty good grades up to that point, right ???

Give me a fuckin' break. Sooooooo, what happened then ... ??

On his first A-4 solo --- he ran off the side of the runway on takeoff roll, turned the jet over on its back -- crash crew showed up -- flight over -- solo over. He got out w/ minor injuries (fortunately he didn't try to punch) and the jet was strike damage.

He did NOT get another board -- flyin' days over -- he got the door.

The Commodore called me in when I came off leave and apologized for not listening to me (in his defense, it WAS 1 against @ 15 in favor of the kid). :icon_wink Why did he get so far and get such satisfactory + grades when anyone w/ a scintilla of honesty could read the tea leaves ... ??? You tell me ...

Are we done w/ the 'race' stuff here ... ??? The points have been made and what else is there, save beating it over & over & over again?? While there's always the exception and there's always ignorant people out there -- I'd like to think the Navy is beyond race these days -- for the record: I survived some of the more publicized 'Navy race riots' of decades ago. While the Navy may not be perfect (what is??), in my experience it's light years ahead of the rest of today's society ... :) You are what you are in the Navy -- you're a sailor, airman, or Marine ... you either perform & do your job -- or you need to be elsewhere.
Sir thats exactly what I'm talking about. I don't want to be placed in a position where I can have others killed for the sake of diversity. It's not a very efficient use of resources. If I can't hack flight school I have no problem being an officer on the ground. I've heard stories like this before..... I don't want charity because I'm a minority, I just want an opportunity to compete. The lives of the men and women under me are far more important than what I look like and the color of my skin. If I'm unfit for command, I will not hesitate to relieve myself. I've seen my fair share of poor leadership in the Marine Corps and if I'm doing something that is endangering the lives and equipment I'm responsible for that is simply unsat, especially if its in the name of a more diverse service. To caveat that, I want to be sure that those working under me are the best and not placed into positions for political reasons (this is a common theme) because that will only compromise the integrity of the unit.

And oh yea.... Nate Frazier definately should have been kicked out a loooonnnggg time ago.... piece of shit.....
 

DanMa1156

Land of the rising sun. Literally. There's no DST!
pilot
Contributor
And oh yea.... Nate Frazier definately should have been kicked out a loooonnnggg time ago.... piece of shit.....
This coming from one of his teammates I think validates my previous post.
 

FormerRecruitingGuru

Making Recruiting Great Again
Sir thats exactly what I'm talking about. I don't want to be placed in a position where I can have others killed for the sake of diversity. It's not a very efficient use of resources. If I can't hack flight school I have no problem being an officer on the ground. I've heard stories like this before..... I don't want charity because I'm a minority, I just want an opportunity to compete. The lives of the men and women under me are far more important than what I look like and the color of my skin. If I'm unfit for command, I will not hesitate to relieve myself. I've seen my fair share of poor leadership in the Marine Corps and if I'm doing something that is endangering the lives and equipment I'm responsible for that is simply unsat, especially if its in the name of a more diverse service. To caveat that, I want to be sure that those working under me are the best and not placed into positions for political reasons (this is a common theme) because that will only compromise the integrity of the unit.

And oh yea.... Nate Frazier definately should have been kicked out a loooonnnggg time ago.... piece of shit.....
I met/knew Nate back in the days of prep school. Great player, don't get me wrong, but at a place where you're trained to be a Naval Officer, he certainly didn't belong here.

I'm surprised he made it all the way this far, I knew he got kicked out of NAPS because of academics, only to be given a "second chance" at some other prep school and ultimately back to USNA.

I guess some people do have "9 lives" because Nate certainly fits the character.
 

pharaelga

Constantly lost in the sauce....
This coming from one of his teammates I think validates my previous post.
Well... his teammate for a semester of spring ball before I made the wiser decision to move back down to sprint football.

Interesting article and it is correct about the blogging of said incidents on public forums, we need to hush about the racial contraversies that is tearing this school apart. Continuing to split us down two camps because of perceived or actual racial favoritism. Me, coddled generation Yer, I guess so, I guess welfare is a form of coddling and doing everything in your power to not end up like your parents.....just to see that everything that you have accomplished, has a shadow of racial quota cast on it.....because it has been acknowledged that decisions here have been made partially if not all on the bases of race. As heyjoe told me earlier... I raise the bullshit flag on that one...

Why would you switch a white guy with a minority for the sake of public TV just to show the world your more diverse than what you actually are... (color guard issue) Why does race have to be an issue? The dissent caused by these decisions is making the racism problem get worse here.... am I the only one who sees this.... it's wrong or we dont have enough facts even though its staring us in the face. There is no way to vent what I feel is injustice in reverse. I would be a hypocrite to support this... maybe having a white mother and black father gives me perspective on racial harmony... I don't f***in know, I just know that this is wrong and goes against what I believe in. I mean come on... I'm a minority what am I complaining for... honor, integrity and EQUALITY is what we stand for... not this.
 
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