Want to fly USMC, but need waiver (loonnnggg story with OSO and MEPS)

[Flying Low]

Can I get a longer version to read?

 

[torpedo0126]

What's going to happen if your current girlfriend leaves you? What if she leaves you during OCS or while you're deployed? There is a reason that they don't like candidates who took drugs for stress or other emotional issues.

i would leave the medical criticisms to NAMI, BUMED, MEPS etc...

 

[wlawr005]

I think that you did this to yourself. Do you think that your OSO sat you down and told you what NOT to say as a joke???

You went to your recruiter and told him you wanted to join. I'm sure that you guys had a talk as to whether your prior medical history was a big deal. The fact that he continued your package tells me that you guys agreed that it wasn't. After he briefed you on what to say, you pussed out at MEPS and told them what he told you not to say. If MEPS stresses you out that much find another line of work...I don't want to fly with you.

Congratulations...you weeded yourself out buddy.

 

[BINGO]

I think that you did this to yourself. Do you think that your OSO sat you down and told you what NOT to say as a joke???

You went to your recruiter and told him you wanted to join. I'm sure that you guys had a talk as to whether your prior medical history was a big deal. The fact that he continued your package tells me that you guys agreed that it wasn't. After he briefed you on what to say, you pussed out at MEPS and told them what he told you not to say. If MEPS stresses you out that much find another line of work...I don't want to fly with you.

Congratulations...you weeded yourself out buddy.

Possibly, but like I said, I would rather come in the service the right way then lie to help meet someones recruiting needs. Even BUMED said that they would of found my med records anyways.

MEPS didn't stress me out. I just didn't want to deal with the hassle of getting a waiver like I did with the AF, and neither did my recruiter.

If lying is a acceptable part of your lifestyle...I don't want to fly with you either.

Thanks for the response.

What's going to happen if your current girlfriend leaves you? What if she leaves you during OCS or while you're deployed? There is a reason that they don't like candidates who took drugs for stress or other emotional issues.

Life will go on and I'll deal. Crap happens. People change and for me I'm grateful for the experiences that life dealt me. It's made me a stronger person that can handle greater things now.

I understand the services reasons for this sort of stuff, I just think its prejudice that they would deny someone who turned to professional help rather than running to drugs or alcohol abuse to help solve their problems. Joe Shmo can smoke weed and get a waiver no problem, but someone who's used medication in a controlled manner will be denied and shown the door.

It's a tough call. I will tell you this: Lying will get you in a huge amount of trouble, and at TBS integrity violators end up getting their commissions revoked (which is a long an nasty process). I wouldn't suggest you lie ever.

That being said, 3 anit-depressant meds in 5 years doesn't look so good. Neither does the fact that you lied about it. Honestly, your chances (as pickle has stated) aren't so good. Your OSO's job is to pick the most qualified people to fill those slots. The point of a waiver is to say that you did something that would disqualify you but shouldn't be. If your OSO can find 10 people who don't need waivers for those 10 slots, then they are most likely going.

The military will probably want to see that you can handle hardship without meds. What are you going to do in the USMC when you, as a provisional rifle platoon commander (which half of the MOS's out there are doing), have a Marine get killed? I can guarantee that the emotions felt are much worse/more intense than if your girlfriend cheats on you.

good luck.

Thanks. You're right, the Marines had no problem telling me they were just to lazy to fight for my waiver when their was other guys who didn't need one.
Interesting enough, these were guys who weren't even eligible for a passing PFT or a defined major with a grad date.

I don't think quality is the issue, but more so quantity.

If something happens in a platoon and I am the leader when the crap hits the fan, I will handle the situation to the best of my ability. OCS/TBS weeds people out who shouldn't be leaders in the Corps. If something were to happen, it would happen there.

In the time I was in ROTC, their wasn't anything that was to much to handle. Mind you I had shingles and valley fever (look that one up) which almost killed me. I was told by the hospital to drop out of school and ROTC all together and I still stayed, did PT 3 days a week in cold weather all while denying breathing treatments to make it through because I wouldn't let anything stop me.

How many applicants do you know that have gone through these kinds of struggles and overcame them to still want to be a Marine?

Your Recruiter isn't lying to you...there is a shitty economy/job market which means an abundance of qualified people looking to join the military.

You have problems, which means it is a pain in the ass for people to get you a slot when behind (in front of?) you in line is that 4.0 triathlete engineer who rescues babies from orphaned kittens in his spare time. And trust me, there are a LOT of these guys out there.

When I tried to get in to the Navy as an Officer in 2003 I had not good grades (3.02 in Animal Science) and was going up against three 4.0 engineer wonderkids just to compete for attention from my recruiter. Sometimes you need to see that you aren't the most qualified applicant, and try another route.

What better way is there to prove your dedication, leadership abilities, integrity, and mental/physical health than to enlist in the military? I know it is not the most ideal situation, but if you are REALLY willing to do all it takes to get in and be an officer in the miltary; this may be what you have to do. 2 years of solid effort as an E-3/4/5 will really show you mean to work in our military. It worked for me, I got my acceptance letter 26 months after I enlisted and was off to get my commission.

You can try blaming the system, it feels good, but why aren't these guys willing to go to bat for you? Time for that long hard introspective look...

Pickle

Point taken. I realize which mistakes were made. Did I learn from them? Yes.

It's not about blaming the system to feel good, it's about getting a chance to show what I can do as an officer. I can't enlist if I ever plan to still fly. I'm 24 and have a deadline to finish my major to be eligible for pilot training.

BTW, I've spoken with the Navy about my situation and they said getting me a waiver is strong possibility, it just might take time. That is another option. My uncle flew for the Navy and enjoyed his time. If the Corps doesn't work out, I will apply elsewhere. Maybe CG too, I don't know yet.

 

[picklesuit]

In the time I was in ROTC, their wasn't anything that was to much to handle. Mind you I had shingles and valley fever (look that one up) which almost killed me. I was told by the hospital to drop out of school and ROTC all together and I still stayed, did PT 3 days a week in cold weather all while denying breathing treatments to make it through because I wouldn't let anything stop me.

How many applicants do you know that have gone through these kinds of struggles and overcame them to still want to be a Marine?

"Ready...(wheeze)...KILL!"

 

[wlawr005]

Possibly, but like I said, I would rather come in the service the right way then lie to help meet someones recruiting needs. Even BUMED said that they would of found my med records anyways.

MEPS didn't stress me out. I just didn't want to deal with the hassle of getting a waiver like I did with the AF.

If lying is a acceptable part of your lifestyle...I don't want to fly with you either.

Thanks for the response.

1) Don't think that you were helping to meet recruiting needs...your OSO has no trouble filling the ranks with studs who wanna fly...HE was trying to help YOU...

2) If you medical history isn't a big deal, why make it a big deal? I'm sure your OSO asked you this...and I'm sure your reply went something like "Sir, my medical history, although tainted, will not affect my performance if selected for the military."

3) There are a significant number of pilots who do enjoy flying with me because a) I know when to speak up in the back and b) I know when to keep my mouth shut...

In case you are wondering, the latter applies to you my friend. The key to the process is not making waves my friend, you created a tsunami.

 

[gaijin6423]

You say it's not about blaming the system, but in the previous post, you also say that the Marines were, "...too lazy to fight for [your] waiver..." Sounds like you're blaming the system if you ask me. And there are plenty of people who have overcome serious issues and not only still want to become Marines, but have done it.

You can say that you'd handle a situation a certain way or, as you put it, to the best of your abilities. But you'll never know precisely how you'll react until it happens. Case in point: My roommate at TBS thought he was Billy Badass. He went infantry, finished well in his IOC class, and went to a battalion (I won't say which one). By all accounts, he was doing well for a 2ndLt there, until his first firefight in Iraq. He hid under his vehicle and wouldn't come out until his Platoon Sgt dragged him by his feet. He totally locked up. He was relieved for cowardice under fire, sent to a psych eval and eventually discharged. I guess you never know.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but there is a very harsh reality out there. If you feel as though you can hack it, and the Marine Corps agrees, then go for it. But if you wind up getting turned down, there's always a reason. You've given a couple big ones in this thread alone. Fight like hell if you want it, but please don't blame 'the system' for doing what it was designed to do.

 

[Goober]

I think that you did this to yourself. Do you think that your OSO sat you down and told you what NOT to say as a joke???

You went to your recruiter and told him you wanted to join. I'm sure that you guys had a talk as to whether your prior medical history was a big deal. The fact that he continued your package tells me that you guys agreed that it wasn't. After he briefed you on what to say, you pussed out at MEPS and told them what he told you not to say. If MEPS stresses you out that much find another line of work...I don't want to fly with you.

Congratulations...you weeded yourself out buddy.

Wow. Wrong attitude. Great that you got yours, but now would be a good time to have a coke and a smile and STFU. You've got a long way to go. FWIW, I've got two sets of gold wings.

This guy's trying to do the right thing even when those that should be helping him are coaching him not to do it. By your reasoning it seems that "easy" trumps "right," or am I mistaken (although I'm pretty sure that what you said)?

Personally, while I can see the OSO's take on things from a "return on investment" perspective, it really doesn't excuse their actions/inactions. So some cases will involve more legwork than others - so what? That's what you're getting paid for, OSO. Not every applicant shows up with a ribbon and bow in one neat package.

For Bingo: get your paperwork in order. This OSO likely now realizes after being called on the carpet for his actions that the smarter thing to do would have been to submit your info (as he should have done) in the first place. It's BUMED and the Corps' decision as to whether they accept you, not his just because it might require more effort. Be timely. Be proactive. Be professional. If BUMED is willing to take another look, then your chances are better than average.

Take this from someone who had two rounds of the waiver process before he was cleared. It's worth taking your time to get it right. Good luck.

 

[BINGO]

Wow. Wrong attitude. Great that you got yours, but now would be a good time to have a coke and a smile and STFU. You've got a long way to go. FWIW, I've got two sets of gold wings.

This guy's trying to do the right thing even when those that should be helping him are coaching him not to do it. By your reasoning it seems that "easy" trumps "right," or am I mistaken (although I'm pretty sure that what you said)?

Personally, while I can see the OSO's take on things from a "return on investment" perspective, it really doesn't excuse their actions/inactions. So some cases will involve more legwork than others - so what? That's what you're getting paid for, OSO. Not every applicant shows up with a ribbon and bow in one neat package.

For Bingo: get your paperwork in order. This OSO likely now realizes after being called on the carpet for his actions that the smarter thing to do would have been to submit your info (as he should have done) in the first place. It's BUMED and the Corps' decision as to whether they accept you, not his just because it might require more effort. Be timely. Be proactive. Be professional. If BUMED is willing to take another look, then your chances are better than average.

Take this from someone who had two rounds of the waiver process before he was cleared. It's worth taking your time to get it right. Good luck.

Wow, thank you. I really appreciate your help.

You say it's not about blaming the system, but in the previous post, you also say that the Marines were, "...too lazy to fight for [your] waiver..." Sounds like you're blaming the system if you ask me. And there are plenty of people who have overcome serious issues and not only still want to become Marines, but have done it.

You can say that you'd handle a situation a certain way or, as you put it, to the best of your abilities. But you'll never know precisely how you'll react until it happens. Case in point: My roommate at TBS thought he was Billy Badass. He went infantry, finished well in his IOC class, and went to a battalion (I won't say which one). By all accounts, he was doing well for a 2ndLt there, until his first firefight in Iraq. He hid under his vehicle and wouldn't come out until his Platoon Sgt dragged him by his feet. He totally locked up. He was relieved for cowardice under fire, sent to a psych eval and eventually discharged. I guess you never know.

I don't want to sound like a dick, but there is a very harsh reality out there. If you feel as though you can hack it, and the Marine Corps agrees, then go for it. But if you wind up getting turned down, there's always a reason. You've given a couple big ones in this thread alone. Fight like hell if you want it, but please don't blame 'the system' for doing what it was designed to do.

I'm not blaming the system, I'm blaming the people who abuse it. In my case my OSO is suppose to go to bat for me when I'm a candidate that's just doing what I can to get selected. Don't forget that I was told I'd be helped if I got the necessary paper work, which I did. If you read my (yes,lengthy) post, you'd see that I'm doing what I can.

To add to that. My original recruiter just separated from the service in April and is no longer the head of this OSO, but the problem remains because of his fill in that I've already talked to some months ago.

1) Don't think that you were helping to meet recruiting needs...your OSO has no trouble filling the ranks with studs who wanna fly...HE was trying to help YOU...

Telling me to lie was against the core values of the Corps and against mine. Lying is lying. That simple.

2) If you medical history isn't a big deal, why make it a big deal? I'm sure your OSO asked you this...and I'm sure your reply went something like "Sir, my medical history, although tainted, will not affect my performance if selected for the military."

Interesting enough, that's what I did tell him...

3) There are a significant number of pilots who do enjoy flying with me because a) I know when to speak up in the back and b) I know when to keep my mouth shut...

When then your just better than me. Now that that's out of the way, you gotta solution yet? Or are you just here to tell me again I'm some dude you don't want to fly with? Because, thanks for your responses, but I disagree with you and don't really see any constructive routes to a solution.

In case you are wondering, the latter applies to you my friend. The key to the process is not making waves my friend, you created a tsunami.

If telling the truth means creating a tsunami. So be it.

 

[wlawr005]

JESSEP
You want answers?

KAFFEE
I think I'm entitled to them.

JESSEP
You want answers?!

KAFFEE
I want the truth.

JESSEP
You can't handle the truth!

And nobody moves.

JESSEP
(continuing)
Son, we live in a world that has
walls. And those walls have to be
guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna
do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I
have a greater responsibility than
you can possibly fathom. You weep
for Santiago and you curse the
marines. You have that luxury. You
have the luxury of not knowing what
I know: That Santiago's death, while
tragic, probably saved lives. And my
existence, while grotesque and
incomprehensible to you, saves lives.
(beat)
You don't want the truth. Because
deep down, in places you don't talk
about at parties, you want me on
that wall. You need me there.
(boasting)
We use words like honor, code,
loyalty... we use these words as the
backbone to a life spent defending
something. You use 'em as a punchline.
(beat)
I have neither the time nor the
inclination to explain myself to a
man who rises and sleeps under the
blanket of the very freedom I provide,
then questions the manner in which I
provide it. I'd prefer you just said
thank you and went on your way.
Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a
weapon and stand a post. Either way,
I don't give a damn what you think
you're entitled to.


Hey man...I still love you and hope that best for you dude. Just take some advice and TRY to make things a little easier on yourself...or continue doing things the hard way. Either way, if I see you in the fleet, I'll buy you a beer...Good Luck

 

[torpedo0126]

I think that you did this to yourself. Do you think that your OSO sat you down and told you what NOT to say as a joke???

You went to your recruiter and told him you wanted to join. I'm sure that you guys had a talk as to whether your prior medical history was a big deal. The fact that he continued your package tells me that you guys agreed that it wasn't. After he briefed you on what to say, you pussed out at MEPS and told them what he told you not to say. If MEPS stresses you out that much find another line of work...I don't want to fly with you.

Congratulations...you weeded yourself out buddy.

so basically your telling one to lie their way out of problems? why would people want to fly with you?

you quote A Few Good Men, but you should remind yourself how that movie ends...Jack is to receive a court martial for a variety of charges for issuing an order and then LYING about it.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I think that you did this to yourself. Do you think that your OSO sat you down and told you what NOT to say as a joke???

You went to your recruiter and told him you wanted to join. I'm sure that you guys had a talk as to whether your prior medical history was a big deal. The fact that he continued your package tells me that you guys agreed that it wasn't. After he briefed you on what to say, you pussed out at MEPS and told them what he told you not to say. If MEPS stresses you out that much find another line of work...I don't want to fly with you.

Congratulations...you weeded yourself out buddy.

Ok this just got negative rep.

You are advocating lying to get into the military as an officer. There is no integrity in that and it is against every principle an officer should uphold.

1) Don't think that you were helping to meet recruiting needs...your OSO has no trouble filling the ranks with studs who wanna fly...HE was trying to help YOU...

2) If you medical history isn't a big deal, why make it a big deal? I'm sure your OSO asked you this...and I'm sure your reply went something like "Sir, my medical history, although tainted, will not affect my performance if selected for the military."

3) There are a significant number of pilots who do enjoy flying with me because a) I know when to speak up in the back and b) I know when to keep my mouth shut...

In case you are wondering, the latter applies to you my friend. The key to the process is not making waves my friend, you created a tsunami.

Negative rep for this one too.

Yes I realize his OSO told him to lie. This OSO has no integrity either.

You should turn down your STA-21 selection if you really think this way. THere is no place in the Navy for an officer who advocates lying.

Just take some advice and TRY to make things a little easier on yourself...or continue doing things the hard way.

And strike three in the neg rep column.

I guess you do live by the saying "Once you give up integrity, the rest is easy.....

BINGO - ignore this idiot. You did the right thing by telling the truth and ass wipes like this eventually have their lies catch up with them.

 

[wlawr005]

wow...idiot? integrity? give up STA-21? easy on the red ink fella...

NO WHERE did I say lie...

This kid probably wouldn't have made it to MEPS unless he convinced his OR that his history wasn't a problem...if he can do that much convincing at home, why change his tune at MEPS???

Better yet, if it REALLY isn't a problem, why mention it at all?

'nough said...peace I'm out.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I agree with Hal. I read your (yes, very long) post and really respect your integrity and pro activeness. While I can't say whether or not it will work out for you, at least you can say you did it the right way.

 

[HAL Pilot]

wow...idiot? integrity? give up STA-21? easy on the red ink fella...

NO WHERE did I say lie...

This kid probably wouldn't have made it to MEPS unless he convinced his OR that his history wasn't a problem...if he can do that much convincing at home, why change his tune at MEPS???

Better yet, if it REALLY isn't a problem, why mention it at all?

'nough said...peace I'm out.

Make it a 4th neg rep since you can't seem to figure out the integrity thing.