IFS/NFO's

[FlyinRock]

For about the past year now I've noticed several NFO students coming into IFS with a strange attitude.
The feel since they are not going to be pilots, they don't have to work during IFS. Their performance shows it, their lack of study and preparedness shows it, their crappy attitude proves it. When they start to get grades of 4 or 5 they get all bent out of shape and bitch and moan that they shouldn't have to go through this anyway since all they are going to do is push buttons in the back.
I know at least one case when the student told me if he couldn't be a pilot, why should he bust his ass like the SNA students. He knew it was a screening program and yet didn't really apply himself. My explanations and arguments fell on deaf ears. I suspect his attitude will carry him far - in the wrong direction. I honestly don't recall what happened to him and I don't really care any more than he did.
OTOH, I know of one NFO student that was struggling to get through and had one of the most determined attitudes I have ever seen. Needless to say, I busted my ass to get that student through the program and was successful. That struggle included going before two boards. I hope Ensign **** is doing well.
If any NFO applicants are reading this, I hope they'll read and heed. You'll get out of it what you put into it. A crappy attitude can be contagious and reflection back from your instructors.
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[Pugs]

Indeed, this seems like a really great program that I wish had existed when I went through. I had some private time before I went to VT-10 and glad I did or having my first graded event in the back of the 34C would have been a major shock.

Use this time to build SA. As an NFO you'll never fly alone (obviously) and while other NFO's may judge you by how well you run the mission, pilots in your squadron, including your CO when it is one, will judge you by how good a copilot you are.

Build that SA and skills as early as you can.

 

[Uncle Fester]

FR, if failure to perform is due to failure of effort or shitty attitude, make sure it's noted on the grade sheets! I promise, the student's PRB will take notice of that.

Student FO's: One of the things we're screening for in IFS is willingness to study hard (coupled with enough aptitude for that hard studying to pay dividends). We don't really care if your airmanship isn't all that great. But failure through lack of effort or attempt to coast through with the clutch in will get you an early invitation to leave. Believe it.

 

[desertoasis]

If you get the right instructor, they'll knock that attitude out of you in a heartbeat. I offhandedly mentioned to my instructor in an early flight that I was going to enjoy some of my only time actually flying the plane, and he stopped the plane on the taxiway (Sikes) and admonished me that even though I won't be piloting, I still should be applying myself and acting as though at any time, I could be thrown into that role. Knowledge of piloting skills, he said, directly contributes to the success of the NFO's job.

Though in practice you won't be grabbing the stick and saving the day, you should still listen to every word that you hear about piloting and learn what you can. The more knowledge you have about what the pilot is doing, the better job you will be able to do in the back (or side, depending on your craft).


Just my $.02....

 

[CommodoreMid]

I won't lie, I didn't enjoy IFS (didn't hate it, but didn't love it either) particularly because I felt my airmanship wasn't very good and as an NFO I knew that part was kind of moot, but I wouldn't trade the experience. At the end of the day I'm still proud to say I soloed and even though I don't think I want to try for my PPL, I'm glad I did it. I think I have a greater appreciation for what the pilots do and as I'm starting primary I feel a lot more comfortable just having been in a single engine prop.

 

[TheBubba]

...I soloed...

You said the "s" word... When did SNFOs start soloing in IFS?

 

[desertoasis]

You said the "s" word... When did SNFOs start soloing in IFS?

They decided last year that SNFOs and SNAs were going through IFS the same way. Probably more cost-effective to have one unified program than to separate it out between FO's and Aviators.

 

[cfam]

I had a blast in IFS. Flying=fun, regardless of which seat you're ending up in. And it definitely helped, especially with getting a good instrument scan down (trust me, it helps in primary).

 

[HAL Pilot]

If you get the right instructor, they'll knock that attitude out of you in a heartbeat. I offhandedly mentioned to my instructor in an early flight that I was going to enjoy some of my only time actually flying the plane, and he stopped the plane on the taxiway (Sikes) and admonished me that even though I won't be piloting, I still should be applying myself and acting as though at any time, I could be thrown into that role. Knowledge of piloting skills, he said, directly contributes to the success of the NFO's job.

This isn't a slam on Rocky because he is obviously a professional CFI vice a CFI just time-building on his way to other flying jobs but...

My experience is that most GA instructors should not be teaching SNAs or SNFOs anything yet alone lecturing them on what they will need to know to be successful in Naval Aviation.

I hope the Navy is screening the instructors they allow to teach IFS to get rid of the pimply-faced know-it-all Riddle/aviation university grads that haven't had any real-life aviation experience.

I put of with a lot of BS at Comair Academy getting my instructor tickets after I retired. After a few ass-chewings to remind the young punks that I was not one of them but an experienced aviator who knew the difference between procedure and technique, the retired Gunny Chief Instructor had pity on both them and me and became my personal instructor. He (like Rocky) was a professional instructor with a 5k or 6k of instruction given and we subsequently had a great time and a great learning experience.

 

[desertoasis]

This isn't a slam on Rocky because he is obviously a professional CFI vice a CFI just time-building on his way to other flying jobs but...

My experience is that most GA instructors should not be teaching SNAs or SNFOs anything yet alone lecturing them on what they will need to know to be successful in Naval Aviation.

I hope the Navy is screening the instructors they allow to teach IFS to get rid of the pimply-faced know-it-all Riddle/aviation university grads that haven't had any real-life aviation experience.

I put of with a lot of BS at Comair Academy getting my instructor tickets after I retired. After a few ass-chewings to remind the young punks that I was not one of them but an experienced aviator who knew the difference between procedure and technique, the retired Gunny Chief Instructor had pity on both them and me and became my personal instructor. He (like Rocky) was a professional instructor with a 5k or 6k of instruction given and we subsequently had a great time and a great learning experience.

I wholeheartedly agree. The twentysomethings who are doing CFI jobs to pay the bills shouldn't be teaching us. If I had any say in the IFS plan, I'd hand-pick the instructors from each school, retired military or something, pay them a bucketload to teach the curriculum with the military slant that it should have, and hopefully the problem will be less prominent.

Point of information, my IFS instructor was a retired AF LCOL with twice as many flight hours than I have had days alive. Sorry I didn't make that clear in my previous post.

 

[Kickflip89]

I solo'd three times in IFS as a SNFO last Feb - March. Had a blast. I agree that things like, can you hold an altitude / heading, are not as important to a FO as things like, do you know what heading / altitude you are trying to hold, and do you notice that you are not holding it. Still, a lot of good lessons to be learned in IFS in a (relatively) low-stress environment.

 

[CommodoreMid]

I wholeheartedly agree. The twentysomethings who are doing CFI jobs to pay the bills shouldn't be teaching us. If I had any say in the IFS plan, I'd hand-pick the instructors from each school, retired military or something, pay them a bucketload to teach the curriculum with the military slant that it should have, and hopefully the problem will be less prominent.

Point of information, my IFS instructor was a retired AF LCOL with twice as many flight hours than I have had days alive. Sorry I didn't make that clear in my previous post.

I don't think age/CFI time should be a discriminating factor. Some of the flights I learned the most on were with the younger instructors. In fact I really didn't feel comfortable with my landings until I was with the youngest (well, I think he's the youngest) instructor at Bay Minette. That flight it all kind of clicked for me.

 

[BarrettRC8]

I wholeheartedly agree. The twentysomethings who are doing CFI jobs to pay the bills shouldn't be teaching us. If I had any say in the IFS plan, I'd hand-pick the instructors from each school, retired military or something, pay them a bucketload to teach the curriculum with the military slant that it should have, and hopefully the problem will be less prominent.

Point of information, my IFS instructor was a retired AF LCOL with twice as many flight hours than I have had days alive. Sorry I didn't make that clear in my previous post.

While my primary instructor at IFS was pretty damn salty, I flew with each of the other instructors at the school I attended and can say that they each did an admirable job despite the fact that none of them had military experience. While perhaps not as thorough as my primary instructor, they taught the techniques well and made real attempts at working with the students and ensuring they could fly reasonably well given the short amount of time we were given. While it would be ideal to be trained solely by retired military aviators, that is not the purpose of IFS. What you're describing, is Primary.

 

[Slammer2]

For about the past year now I've noticed several NFO students coming into IFS with a strange attitude.
The feel since they are not going to be pilots, they don't have to work during IFS. Their performance shows it, their lack of study and preparedness shows it, their crappy attitude proves it. When they start to get grades of 4 or 5 they get all bent out of shape and bitch and moan that they shouldn't have to go through this anyway since all they are going to do is push buttons in the back.
I know at least one case when the student told me if he couldn't be a pilot, why should he bust his ass like the SNA students. He knew it was a screening program and yet didn't really apply himself. My explanations and arguments fell on deaf ears. I suspect his attitude will carry him far - in the wrong direction. I honestly don't recall what happened to him and I don't really care any more than he did.
OTOH, I know of one NFO student that was struggling to get through and had one of the most determined attitudes I have ever seen. Needless to say, I busted my ass to get that student through the program and was successful. That struggle included going before two boards. I hope Ensign **** is doing well.
If any NFO applicants are reading this, I hope they'll read and heed. You'll get out of it what you put into it. A crappy attitude can be contagious and reflection back from your instructors.
Semper Fi
Rocky

I'm sorry to hear that Sir. I'm a SNFO contract currently in IFS in VA. I've been busting my ass at it trying to do as good as possible. I am personally trying to switch over to a SNA contract (even though all my attempts so far have been a *****) but that really shouldnt have anything to do with it. I dont get why people wouldnt care just because they're going to be an NFO. Seems like a shitty attitude...

 

[dimlight85]

I'm currently in IFS and so far haven't enjoyed it a whole lot. However, whether I like it or not doesn't deter me from giving 100% at everything I do. I'll give that effort regardless of my attitude or personal opinion of the validity of the program for SNFO's. However, I have a little bit of a problem with being told that my whole naval career in aviation may ride on a solo check-ride given by a civilian instructor.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not complaining. I'm glad to have the opportunity on the navy's dime but it's a military screening process not run by military personnel. Maybe some were but a lot were not and having several different companies do the training means you get huge inconsistencies in the screening process.