Bird Strikes/Visor Protection Help Needed

[xnvyflyer]

A shout out for some assistance with some training I will be giving in the near future.

If there are any of you who have had a bird strike while flying and your visor has been a key factor in keeping you safe (at least your eyes) I'd like to hear about it. I want to continue to hammer home to the guys in my unit the importance of wearing the visor down. It seems there has been an increase of bird activity lately as well.

Any pictures of damage to aircraft etc. as a result of the strike would also be swell.

Thanks,

X

 

[Schnugg]

Have you tried contacting the Naval Safety Center BASH desk?
I'm sure they'd be glad to help.

 

[MAKE VAPES]

There are pics online of a C-130 that took an eagle in the kisser (this isn't it tho)... my neighbor was in the right seat I believe... I'll see what he can do for you.

Looks like this guy was wearing his eye protection though... and his sleeves were rolled down, and his gloves on...

 

[FLYTPAY]

I have a buddy who had a birdstrike that came through the 45 in Meridian in the 99-00 timeframe. The visor and mask combo saved his eyes.

I am personally guilty sometimes of pulling my visor up, especially when bouncing. Although the Hornet can take some bird beating in the landing configuration, I should keep it down.

 

[phrogdriver]

^^^that was 5 seconds of my life I'm not getting back.

By Henry Rollins' account, you just committed murder in the one-millionth degree.

 

[Gatordev]

Xnavyflier, if this hijacks your thread, I'll split it, but...

This is something I've always wondered about. It's pretty clear that the statistics say having visors down helps w/ bird strikes, but what about when you're flying on goggles? More and more of our (military aviation) is done at night and for low fliers, that means right w/ the birds. So why is it "safe" to have the visor down at night, but it's okay to have it up (and large metal tubes next to your eyes) at night?


A buddy of mine was bouncing at IB a few years ago at 1 am-ish while on goggles. They took a rare breed of pelican through the green house and down on to the pilot seat. The goggles were ripped off, but everyone was okay. Just food for thought.

Makes me wonder how valuable visors really are. I'm not saying they're not valuable, but I wonder by how much. But that's kind of like trying to prove a negative.

 

[MasterBates]

I took a 5 pound seagull through the ATO window and another thru the greenhouse on my last flight at HSL-40.

I'm really guilty of flying visor up in the 60 and 45 at night. In the 60 the combo of all the farking lights and grease/gunk on the windscreen just cause horrible reflections and glare in the visor which made it hard to see. I figured it was less risk having it up and seeing better vice glass in the eyes via hitting a bird.

In the 45, I'd put it down if we were hauling ass down low, but up in the FLs and in the pattern (slow enough birds stay out) I normally had it up.

What kills me is the sliding visor on the HGU-68 (Jet/E2 helmet).. You launch day with tinted.. And then you have to fly visor up if you want to see once the sun goes down. Or go off coms and off O2 for a minute to change it, and pray you don't FOD the cockpit or have to eject NOW in that minute.

If Goop is reading I ALWAYS wear my visor down in the E2... :whistle:

 

[skidkid]

I am another visor offender. I have the smoke down day time and if the weather is bad it goes up. I have a clear and a laser on my helmet but hate both of them. In a low vis situation the idea of adding another pane of plexiglass to my vision equation isnt appealing. I might be rolling the dice but so be it. As for NVGs, they will provide laser detection but not bird etc, again rolling the dice. Avoid the flock let the single bird avoid you.

 

[FlyinRock]

I'm afraid I am not going to help your cause. Cause I've had literally hundreds of bird strikes while crop dusting day and night. I've had at least a half dozen birds come into the cockpit with me and even one that continued to fly around inside!
I've had them bounce off the side of my helmet when they were already dead from the impact with the windscreen, and others that died in the aftermath.
If I can figure how, I can provide some pics of bird strikes and damage that only caused aggravation and repair costs. The most poignant one came after the fact and I picked up a piece of the windscreen that I used as a letter opener for years. If it had hit me in the throat I might have bled out before I could make it back to a landing!
I took pics of a pelican hit in a P2V out of North Island in the late 50's. It went thru the windscreen, bounced off the helmet of co-pilot, continued back into the cabin and the R/O's had to kill it with a fire axe!
Of all the bird strikes I know of, and pilots I have talked with after the fact, unanimous was their glasses saved their vision. None of them had visors down for additional protection. Most of them didn't have visors?
Not saying they are not important or can be a life saver. I've not run into it in 50 years of flying in the lower reaches of the airspace system.
For my part, its hard enough keeping my glasses clean let alone the visors.
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[abracadabra11]

Xnavyflier, if this hijacks your thread, I'll split it, but...

This is something I've always wondered about. It's pretty clear that the statistics say having visors down helps w/ bird strikes, but what about when you're flying on goggles? More and more of our (military aviation) is done at night and for low fliers, that means right w/ the birds. So why is it "safe" to have the visor down at night, but it's okay to have it up (and large metal tubes next to your eyes) at night?


A buddy of mine was bouncing at IB a few years ago at 1 am-ish while on goggles. They took a rare breed of pelican through the green house and down on to the pilot seat. The goggles were ripped off, but everyone was okay. Just food for thought.

Makes me wonder how valuable visors really are. I'm not saying they're not valuable, but I wonder by how much. But that's kind of like trying to prove a negative.

Wiley X's are becoming increasingly common in the H-60S community for goggle flights. Many guys leave them on for the entire flight. I'm not that big a fan since mine tend to fog up.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Do you have access to old Approach magazines? There would be an article in there from sometime in the late 80-early 82 time frame on a bird strike on a VT-6 T-34 by a turkey buzzard. Broke the windscreen, knocked the student out and broke his collarbone, continued through to the back seat, hits the instructor in the visor, which breaks (but protected him from worse injuries). He is blinded by blood from the cuts. Aircraft has rolled inverted at this point; instructor (who can't see) yells over the ICS for the student. With the wind coming through (from the broken windshield), no response from the student, and aircraft inverted, he makes educated guess that the student has bailed out. So he bails out. Land safely in a farmer's field. In the meantime, the student regains consciousness. Uninverts the aircraft, no instructor, so he flies back solo (with a broken collarbone.)
I had the instructor for a couple of flights about six months later - really good instructor.

 

[MettGT]

Do you have access to old Approach magazines? There would be an article in there from sometime in the late 80-early 82 time frame on a bird strike on a VT-6 T-34 by a turkey buzzard. Broke the windscreen, knocked the student out and broke his collarbone, continued through to the back seat, hits the instructor in the visor, which breaks (but protected him from worse injuries). He is blinded by blood from the cuts. Aircraft has rolled inverted at this point; instructor (who can't see) yells over the ICS for the student. With the wind coming through (from the broken windshield), no response from the student, and aircraft inverted, he makes educated guess that the student has bailed out. So he bails out. Land safely in a farmer's field. In the meantime, the student regains consciousness. Uninverts the aircraft, no instructor, so he flies back solo (with a broken collarbone.)
I had the instructor for a couple of flights about six months later - really good instructor.

I think I've heard about 5 versions of that story since I started Primary....then again, they could be similar but separate events.

 

[xnvyflyer]

Thanks to all for the replies. Schnugg, I'll see if I can get the BASH desk tomorrow.

Adding to what Gatordev and exhelodrvr said, let me threadjack myself. At San Diego Sheriff's Aviation I think the visor issue may be more important to us than most because we typically fly in the single pilot configuration with the MD-500 and Bell 407 meaning no cyclic or pedals on the TFO (tactical flight officer) side in the MD-500 and no cyclic, pedals or collective on the TFO side in the Bell 407. Therefore, if the pilot eats feathers, there is nobody sitting nearby to take the controls. The Bell 205 (Huey) has full time duals.

Because I know some of you are certainly wondering why we would fly without dual controls (I would) I?ll explain. We are somewhat of a unique law enforcement aviation unit due to the amount of off-field work we do including night ops in the mountains. A large percentage of our off-field work involves the TFO debarking while the pilot maintains a ?toe-in? or ?one-skid? hover. Doing this with the controls in place invites disaster. I?ll be the first to admit I?m a bull in a china shop. My helmet is severely battle scarred from just getting in and out of the helicopter on a daily basis. In addition, on the TFO side of the cockpit is a monitor and associated keyboard which must be stowed with dual controls installed and the pre WWII searchlight installed on most of our MD-500s is hand operated by the TFO with the hand controller directly in front of where the cyclic would be.

On one of our many marijuana eradication details, I was dropping off and picking up about 15 narcotics agents in a canyon near Hot Springs Mountain in San Diego County, about 3 miles east of Warner Springs SERE. The agents were familiar with helo ops and were briefed on the ?dos and don?ts? before the evolution. Each pick up and drop off involved a ?toe in.? One of the agents who got into the right front seat (MD-500) pushed down on the collective to help himself adjust his seating position before I departed the ?toe-in.? Thankfully I was prepared for somebody to do this. Some of those boys were rather beefy and there is no way they would have maneuvered around a cyclic.

We also sometimes load rescuees into the front seat with the TFO staying behind depending on the situation.

As far as the NVGs go, we use them religiously (ANVIS-9). Depending on what mount I end up with, I can sometimes get my clear visor down in front of the goggles but mostly not. I wonder what kind of protection they would offer from bird strike. It?s a sobering thought.

With the cyclic out of the MD-500 and the pedals removed I think there may still be hope with a pilot in the left seat who has a turkey buzzard sticking out of his face. I have experimented with using an expandable baton (ASP), to put into the slot where the cyclic goes. A long shot at best.

A couple years ago I asked the folks at Approach if they could put us on the distribution list but no joy. I do seem to remember an old issue, maybe early 90?s, which had a visor safety article with picture of a pen sticking out of a visor. If I remember correctly, it got lodged there during a cat shot?

Great story about the turkey buzzard and T-34 collision.

 

[Pags]

Wiley X's are becoming increasingly common in the H-60S community for goggle flights. Many guys leave them on for the entire flight. I'm not that big a fan since mine tend to fog up.

Wiley X's suck since they restrict your peripheral vision. I put them on once at night at the boat while on deck, saw how much they restricted my peripheral and said, "no thanks."

 

[BurghGuy]

^^^that was 5 seconds of my life I'm not getting back.

By Henry Rollins' account, you just committed murder in the one-millionth degree.

Rep for bringing up Henry Rollins.

"It's like he's stabbing me with a tiny little knife."

I like his idea of being able to sue for time.

(Paraphrase)Your in a horrible accident and lose a leg and it's some other guys fault. In litigation what would you rather have? A million-dollars... or 10 years off this pricks life who inconvienienced you? I'd rather take the time.