SWCS242
SWO in-training
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/30/marine.motorcycles/index.html
Do you think this will change anything?
Do you think this will change anything?
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Article about Marine Motorcycle fatalities...
- Thread starter SWCS242
- Start date
Other than prohibiting sports bikes for junior Sailors or Marines.....
I don't know any other recourse. We already have proper PPE requirements as well as the mandated safety course. Maybe the course will end up being an annual requirement for all riders. I would not be averse to that.
I don't know any other recourse. We already have proper PPE requirements as well as the mandated safety course. Maybe the course will end up being an annual requirement for all riders. I would not be averse to that.
The problem is that all the courses in the world can't teach 18 year olds common sense and vulnerability. I'm not trying to sound like the all-knowing 23 year old (because I am not), but when I learned to ride at 16, I thought I was invincible. I rode like a complete asshole. It took a good wreck and a few years as a volunteer firefighter to realize what could really happen to me. As a result, I am a much much safer rider. I ride slower on my 1000RR than I did on my first bike, a 750cc cruiser.
Learning how to start, stop, shift, and brake every year isn't going to change the "I'm a Sailor/Marine and I do far more dangerous shit than ride a motorcycle" mentality.
Sad but true.
Learning how to start, stop, shift, and brake every year isn't going to change the "I'm a Sailor/Marine and I do far more dangerous shit than ride a motorcycle" mentality.
Sad but true.
Very true. Even witht he new sport bike courses they are required to take, i don't see this changing much. It only takes one reckless moment to screw the pooch royally, and when your recruiting ads make it a point (with good reason, and rightfully so) of going after the young people who think they are invincible, you're going to end up with some accidents in the group.
According to a recent superior of mine, the original version of the Commandant's recent White Letter regarding motorcycles prohibited Marines from riding altogether, though the policy was obviously changed before it was released.
What are the chances that this eventually goes through? What happens to Marines caught riding?
What are the chances that this eventually goes through? What happens to Marines caught riding?
Here is what pisses me off on big Navy's stance: they see the term "sport bike" with these stats, then they decide to swiftly punish everyone. I have been licensed since 2003, owned a sport bike since 2004, been riding for much long longer. Took the basic MSF course before getting my license and took the advanced rider course in 2006. Always have ridden responsible. Always have been good to go with PPE and safety. Suddenly come the beginning of this month, I'm told I may no longer be qualified to ride because a new mandate came down for the sport bike course in July effective 1 Oct. When I said "Hey, I registered the bike on base, advanced rider's course was considered good to go" they said "Sorry, as of now we don't recognize that." So in spite of my following the rules, having the experience and having the training, I am suddenly no longer qualified??
Another problem is we are a small remote base in BFE and there is no sport bike course anywhere near here. Yet base safety was talking about possibly trying to send me to a base over 400 mi away to take the course... ya, like that's safe. All because I own a "sport bike". Safety guy here has said my status is ambiguous: I have been identified to the CO and he hasn't said I have to park my bike, but he hasn't said I'm waived either.
As for the article, military suicides exceed combat deaths; does this mean I'm no longer qual'd to own a gun because I might shoot myself?
Apparently not ... when I rolled into Pensacola, a (in)famous Marine Major Instructor -- big time Vietnam HELO-driver medal winner -- decided to test the bridge "stop" rails when roaring over to Gulf Breeze on his moto-bike when the bridge was open -- toast -- he left behind a wife and one or two kids ...
I gave motorcycles up a long, long time ago ... lots of fun; but kinda' like practicing bleeding ... just my opinion -- everyone's gotta' be somewhere.
D_Rob
Lead LTJG
I have never liked bikes and never will. I know a lot of you guys love the rush you get going 70 or more on the highway, I'm sure it's a lot of fun. I just doesn't make sense to me; guy in bike with only helmet, gloves and jacket vs SUV. I'm not worried about the riders themselves, I'm more worried about the regular terrible driver on the road. You can teach a rider to be safe, and a rider can drive safe, but there will still be those terrible drivers on the road. We've all seen them. (Some of us might be them..) The Navy and Marines can put as many safety restrictions they want, but in the end bike riding itself is just not safe.
My friend who I graduated with was a bike rider. He was out one Saturday afternoon having a nice ride and an old woman hit him and killed him.
http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x2109422840/Medway-Marine-dies-in-N-C-motorcycle-crash
My friend who I graduated with was a bike rider. He was out one Saturday afternoon having a nice ride and an old woman hit him and killed him.
http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x2109422840/Medway-Marine-dies-in-N-C-motorcycle-crash
I think a legit question is how many people are riding motorcycles now as compared to when fuel was cheaper? I know a few folks here at NOB that commute to work on bikes because the lure of 50 or 60 mpg was too great. It would make sense that more riders is going to mean more accidents/fatalities.
SWCS242
SWO in-training
I agree with you that riding is dangerous, and I guarantee you that most people who ride know that, but it's kind of an addiction!!
Anyhow, I am in BDCP and the riding season is over where I live, but was I supposed to do some kind of course since I ride a sport bike? It doesn't really matter now since I leave for OCS in Jan, but yeah...
No. You don't have to do shit unless you ride on base. Maybe some commands have their own SOP for their personnel, but in general, no.
Safety guy was saying if I got injured off base on this new policy without the training I would get a line of duty determination not in my favor.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
SAFETY VIOLATOR!!!!!!
Listen up all of you nay-saying unbelievers!! We can and we WILL prevent every single accident, tragedy, mistake, consequence, and inconvenience!!
The Marine Corps has been kind enough to create all of these programs and regulations so that nothing bad will ever happen to you....even if you do it on purpose or it's all your fault. They care very deeply about us, and our hearts should swell with gratitude and pride.
But what do we have here on this site? A bunch of pessimists who insist on some similance of "cause-effect" strategy behind these regulations and programs.
NONSENSE!! Are you saying that we can't reduce our accident rate to ZERO!?!?! Why not? Were we not able to defeat the Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Iraqis, and Talibanese (?) all in this century?
Is this "law of probability" of which you speak more of a badass than some VC sapper?? HMMMM????
Well, I'll tell you what.....it isn't. Remember, It wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor was it? Hell NO!! And we can defeat this enemy, too.
We're not going to do it with some fancy pants "plan" or anything, either. What we're going to do is care more about this than we did before! Because CARING MORE WORKS!!!!!
Now, there may be a few casualties here. I'm not going to lie to you. Sacrifices will be required.
But I ask you this: Isn't it better to give up all of your decision powers, your responsibility,....dare I say.....even your FREEDOM, if it saves just ONE life? Even if we can never prove that it did?
I say the answer is a resounding YES!! (oh, and by the way......if you said "no" then you obviously care nothing about safety and you are going to burn in Hell for all eternity)
More checklists! More rules!! No risks, EVER!! Of any kind!! That will do it, my friends.......trust me.
Your answer is here, and it is.........TRA!!!!
Then again, if that doesn't work, we can just "empower our NCOs" to handle it.
That way we can always blame them when it doesn't work.
You guys are being too harsh. You all know the way it goes. The President/SECDEF/SECNAV sees these statistics. They ask the Commandant what he's doing about the problem. The Commandant asks his staff what they're doing about it. Somewhere down the line, a field grade officer comes up with another policy/restriction, and it gets sent back up with beaming approval, because it means that we're now "doing" something about the problem. Nobody enjoys writing this crap any more than we enjoy being burdened by it. Same with drunk driving. Same with suicide awareness. Same with countless other programs that are now in effect as a purely reactive measure.
How can one be proactive about it? Reducing the reasons that a Marine would want to take his bike at 90mph, or drive drunk, or attempt suicide. Make his job challenging, but in a good way. Make it suck less by reducing the bullshit he must endure. And yes, making sure that the NCOs, the trusted older brother to the junior enlisted Marine, encourages them to do the right thing.
How can one be proactive about it? Reducing the reasons that a Marine would want to take his bike at 90mph, or drive drunk, or attempt suicide. Make his job challenging, but in a good way. Make it suck less by reducing the bullshit he must endure. And yes, making sure that the NCOs, the trusted older brother to the junior enlisted Marine, encourages them to do the right thing.