PAR approaches?

[Bolter]

never had a dirty PAR, but did have a poor girl nearly burst into tears when she kept giving me all of the opposite calls. I thought it was some sort of candid camera thing or something. good thing is it was a training sortie on a CAVU day. and yes, cherry point does have a CAVU day every now and then.

 

[phrogdriver]

After getting some horrible corrections, they told me,"Too far right for safe approach. SAY INTENTIONS!"

"You tell me. You put me way out here."

 

[HuggyU2]

After getting some horrible corrections, they told me,"Too far right for safe approach. SAY INTENTIONS!"

"You tell me. You put me way out here."

Great comeback!

 

[A4sForever]

After getting some horrible corrections, they told me,"Too far right for safe approach. SAY INTENTIONS!"

"You tell me. You put me way out here."

Yeah, funny ... and I rag on ATC as much as anyone when they fuck up ... but I'd play it kinda close to the vest w/the gratuitous "humor" w/ ATC/GCA when the WX is bad and you're "too far right", close to the ground, and out of ideas ...

Just sayin'... so the newbies don't get the "wrong" idea ...

 

[phrogdriver]

Yeah, funny ... and I rag on ATC as much as anyone when they fuck up ... but I'd play it kinda close to the vest w/the gratuitous "humor" w/ ATC/GCA when the WX is bad and you're "too far right", close to the ground, and out of ideas ...

Just sayin'... so the newbies don't get the "wrong" idea ...

Seeing as it was at the ship, I was pretty sure I wasn't going to hit a skyscraper or mountain or anything.

 

[squeeze]

I'm still amazed that with all the technology we have, we can't (more likely a "won't" vice "can't") develop a traditional ILS that is deployable aboard a ship and also works with civilian ILS.

 

[Gatordev]

I'm still amazed that with all the technology we have, we can't (more likely a "won't" vice "can't") develop a traditional ILS that is deployable aboard a ship and also works with civilian ILS.

It wouldn't be "ruggedized." I don't know what's entailed to meet the ISO standard of "ruggedized." I just like saying "ruggedized."

 

[stalk]

I'm still amazed that with all the technology we have, we can't (more likely a "won't" vice "can't") develop a traditional ILS that is deployable aboard a ship and also works with civilian ILS.

There is actually history behind this perceived idiocy. When the Hornet (and Harrier for that matter) first hit the street civilian ILS was not incorporated due to the emergence of the Microwave Landing System (MLS). MLS was envisioned to replace ILS in the late 90's and would eventually be incorporated to a shipboard variant. There was even a MFD push tile for MLS in the early Hornet software.

Along came GPS and the thought that it could provide the same level of accuracy as an ILS/MLS (which it didn't even with the latest RNP approaches), coupled with the MLS's technology issues with CAT II and CAT III ILS approaches and the civilian side pretty much walked away from MLS. So McDonnell Douglas (Boeing) and the Navy/USMC bet on the wrong horse.

What it has come down to is where is the best place to spend DON R&D/OPEVAL money? Does the Navy continue with a system that has "worked" for years, go after the GPS option, or try to retrofit the fleet? I'm just an old guy but I'm willing to bet the Fleet Requirement bubbas have just a couple of things that are higher priority.

 

[squeeze]

What it has come down to is where is the best place to spend DON R&D/OPEVAL money? Does the Navy continue with a system that has "worked" for years, go after the GPS option, or try to retrofit the fleet? I'm just an old guy but I'm willing to bet the Fleet Requirement bubbas have just a couple of things that are higher priority. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Valid points, but as someone pointed out earlier, with the eventual phasing out of TACANs and the increased reliance on GPS, we are going to look awfully stupid if we do not develop systems for the future.

"Because we've always done it that way" is the absolute WORST reason to do anything - it does nothing but stifle innovation and improvement. FAA-certified GPS, civilian ILS, and RVSM compatibility would go a long way to better integrating military aircraft into a CONUS flying environment. In new "5th gen" aircraft such as the F-22 and F-35 it is ridiculous if such technology isn't integrated.

We can hem and haw all we want about the tactical aspects, which is obviously a primary and huge concern, but we do spend the majority of our time flying in/around civilian airspace and should make an effort to integrate into it when it doesn't compromise the mission capabilities.

I'm not so foolish as to believe it isn't because of something other than $ that it isn't the case, but when we pour millions into projects like the LCS, San Antonio-class LPDs that can't even sail, or the abortion that is the AAAV, it gets hard to swallow that line of reasoning.

 

[phrogdriver]

Whenever I jack something up at work, whether it be a smartpack or a TPS report, I take solace in remembering that at least I'm not in acquisitions, pissing dollars down the drain at the cyclic rate.

 

[A4sForever]

Seeing as it was at the ship, I was pretty sure I wasn't going to hit a skyscraper or mountain or anything.

Yeah ... the only problem is when you hit the water you're just as dead as when you hit a skyscraper or mountain ... or anything.

Believe it.

Good luck.

 

[phrogdriver]

Yeah ... the only problem is when you hit the water you're just as dead as when you hit a skyscraper or mountain ... or anything.

Believe it.

Good luck.

I'm still coming up at the DH!

If there's not time for levity, you're already behind the aircraft.

Lighten' up, dad!

 

[stalk]

Valid points, but as someone pointed out earlier, with the eventual phasing out of TACANs and the increased reliance on GPS, we are going to look awfully stupid if we do not develop systems for the future.

"Because we've always done it that way" is the absolute WORST reason to do anything - it does nothing but stifle innovation and improvement. FAA-certified GPS, civilian ILS, and RVSM compatibility would go a long way to better integrating military aircraft into a CONUS flying environment. In new "5th gen" aircraft such as the F-22 and F-35 it is ridiculous if such technology isn't integrated.

We can hem and haw all we want about the tactical aspects, which is obviously a primary and huge concern, but we do spend the majority of our time flying in/around civilian airspace and should make an effort to integrate into it when it doesn't compromise the mission capabilities.

I'm not so foolish as to believe it isn't because of something other than $ that it isn't the case, but when we pour millions into projects like the LCS, San Antonio-class LPDs that can't even sail, or the abortion that is the AAAV, it gets hard to swallow that line of reasoning.

There ya go Squeeze, thinking like a sane, rational person and discussing the military requirements and budget process. Absolutely agree that "Status Quo" is not a good excuse.

Don't take my historical review as condoning N88/NAVAIRs short sightedness (is that a word?). I was just pointing out one of the reasons the Navy went down the no ILS path. Our Swiss, UAE, Canadian and Aussie friends didn't buy into that thought process and paid to have ILS put into their aircraft straight from the factory. The Blues also have their planes modified.

Eventually, the Fleet bubbas will bitch loud enough and something will have to give. My IMHO I think the cost of maintaining PARs and training controllers on archaic systems will eventually get to a point where the transition to a more modern technology will be required.

 

[A4sForever]

I'm still coming up at the DH!

If there's not time for levity, you're already behind the aircraft.

Lighten' up, dad!

I don't care about "levity" when it's 200/ and a half ...

I went below DH .... intentionally .... once .... I couldn't see forward (I was in the back seat as well ... ) but I could see straight down ...

I took the airplane and landed it. I was out of fuel... the nearest BINGO was going down w/ each succeeding PAR and I would have been "scoch" (when's the last time you've heard that word on AW's ??? ) if I'd gone there. One other guy "followed my lead" and landed ... then the field shut down and 10 other birds -- with fuel -- had to divert.

Later that afternoon ... several of the BINGO-ees cornered me and tol' me they "wished" they'd done the same ....

The morale of the story? I don't know ... except that in nearly 25K hours of flight time ... I've never been behind the A/C when it counted. :sleep_125

 

[HuggyU2]

I thought it was pronounced "scosh".